[Speaker Changes] The house will come to order. Members please take your seats. Visitors please retire from the chamber. The sergeant in arms will close the doors. Members and visitors of the gallery please silence all cellular phones and personal electronic devices. Prayer will be offered by Representative Pat Hurley. Members and visitors in the gallery please stand and please remain standing for the Pledge of Allegiance. [Speaker Changes] Let us pray. Heavenly Father thank you for bringing us to this place and moment in time. We know you bless us with the hours of our days. How we choose to use the time is up to each of us. Please give us discernment, and passion, wisdom, kindness, and love in the use of our time. Where there are those experiencing pain, sorrow, loneliness, heartache, hunger and other needs, please show your love through us as we minister to those around us. Let us not be too busy to be aware of those who may need a smile, a tender touch, a kind word or someone to just listen to them. As we serve our communities, our states and our nations, please let us not forget that what is done for your glory will endure. Please protect those serving in the military and give wisdom and leadership in our state nation, and world. Please continue to bless America. Help us remember to do unto others as we would have them do unto us. In Jesus’ precious name I pray, Amen. [Speaker Changes] Representative Moore is recognized. [Speaker Changes] Mr. Speaker, the Journal for August the 23rd, 2013, has been examined and found to be correct. Move as approval as written. [Speaker Changes] Representative Moore move stat the journal for April 23 be approved as written. All in favor say aye, all opposed say no. The ayes have it, the journal is approved as written. Petitions, memorials or papers addressed to the General Assembly of the house. Ratifications of bills and resolutions, the clerk will read. [Speaker Changes] Enrolling clerk courts for bill to be ratified and presentative by Secretary of State. Senate Bill 56, an act amending local act for the town of Wallace that removes certain restrictions on the satellite annexation for the town. [Speaker Changes] ?? Bills be noted. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, the chair anticipates a somewhat lengthy debate today, so without any objection we will adjourn subject to the introduction of committee reports. Messages from the Senate, the clerk will read. [Speaker Changes] Committee Substitute for Senate Bill 105, a bill to enact to clarify the municipalities made for state law concerning placement of the signs on the state highway system within the corporate limits of the municipality. [Speaker Changes] Transportation. [Speaker Changes] Committee Substitute number two for Senate Bill 311. A bill to be entitled to permit the towns of Apex, Cary, and the city of Raleigh to enact sidewalk dining ordinances for the use of state owned right of way. [Speaker Changes] Transportation in favorable Government [Speaker Changes] Committee Substitute for Senate Bill 25, a bill to be entitled to enact members of the wake County board of Education shall be elected from districts. [Speaker Changes] Elections. [Speaker Changes] Committee Substitute for Senate Bill 377, a bill to be entitled to enact to allow the governor to temporarily suspend routine weight inspections of trucks upon existence of threat widespread severe damage of crops that are ready to be harvested. [Speaker Changes] Transportation. [Speaker Changes] Committee Substitute for Senate 461, a bill to be entitled to enact to require division of motor vehicles to allow third commercial drivers license skills testing to any day of the week and to extend validity of a temporary driving certificate issues to an applicant for the commercials drivers license to 60 days. [Speaker Changes] Transportation. [Speaker Changes] Committee Substitute number 2 for Senate Bill 594, a bill that has been entitled to enact to require drug screening for applicants and recipients of warrant first program systems. [Speaker Changes] Judiciary Subcommittee C. Ladies and gentlemen of the House...
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Enemies tremble upon hearing the words "United States marine core". We see television ads that speak about the few and a proud and the first to fight, that there are no former Marines. Once a marine, always a marine. Today, we are privileged to see all of these definitions up close and personal. The checkerboards are monuments to their motto, "Semper Fidelis", always faithful. I know that you'll join me in honoring the service of these brave and proud individuals, and now departed heroes by voting in favor of this resolution. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Larry Hall, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To speak on the resolution. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the resolution. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Speaker ??. For those of you who are unaware of the camaraderie that marines share, and as Representative Howard said, always faithful, once a marine always a marine. And so, some Marines in the gallery possibly, or some marines on the floor may know what that call was. And whenever we hear it we know there are other Marines. As you see, George Cleveland, I even have his attention. And so, other Marines know there's a marine in the house, or on the floor. I want to talk about fixed marine air support, and how important it is to the missions that our great Marines perform around the world, and how important BMFA312 was to the progress we made in close air support, such that Marines are renowned worldwide for the skill of having a combined arms team that has air support as well as ground troops in the many missions they perform around the world. The checkerboards played a great part in this history, and the development of air cover. So the names you heard of those Marines and that one Air Force officer who was so blessed to serve with so many Marines will live on not just because of the history of that organization but the development of close air support, and the great part it plays in what America does around the world today. Whether they were in El Toro in California or ?? Japan, or Demaine. They develop both a unit, a spirit and a purpose, and they carry it out with honor as they do in the tradition of the Marines. I would say this. Because of the sacrifice of these Marines, as well as so many others, and all the other services, we are a great country today. They challenge us by their deeds to live up to their greatness, and I commend the resolution to you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Setzer, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To speak on the resolution. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the resolution. [SPEAKER CHANGES] House resolution 303 is a reminder to each of us that we should contemplate the dedication and devotion, the services extended each today by past and current armed services. It is always appropriate that whenever the opportunity arises we honor the memories of our fallen heroes, and the lives of those veterans still with us. For without the numerous untold personal sacrifices extended by the checkerboards, squadron members and others, the way of life that we all hold dear could very well have been lost in the balance. It is often said that freedom is not free, and with recent current events, we can see that fact with greater clarity. Today, as we honor the life and memory of those 20 souls who were listed in this resolution, we are reminded of the great debt that each of us owe them, their families, each living veteran and each current person serving in the military. We are truly thankful for each and every one of you. Each member of the checkerboard squadron understood their duty to honor and country, and the obligation therein contained, and they fulfilled their duty with character and integrity, always faithful. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Whitmire, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To commend the resolution. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the resolution. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Very briefly, this weekend I'll be serving with some Marines. It's an honor and a pleasure to serve with the former Marines that are in this body, and I commend this resolution. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Whitmire, the only thing I will tell you, after brief discussion with Representative Paul about two or three years ago, there is no such thing as a former marine.
Further discussion, further debate. If not, the question before the house is the adoption of House Resolution 303. All in favor vote aye, all opposed vote no. The clerk will open the vote. The clerk will lock machine. Record the vote. 115 having voted in the affirmative and none in the negative, House Resolution 303 has been adopted. Will be ordered printed. Ladies and gentlemen of the house, in combat in Denang Vietnam in 1965, good manners and political correctness didn't mix with guns, rockets and bombs. In order to keep the checkerboards from being uncouth, in social settings, the senior officer was designated as the couth officer. his chore was to maintain good order and discipline. 50 years later that custom continues. And the center gallery is checkerboard reunion's couth officer, Marine Corps Brigadier General Frank Huely and his wife, Lee. Before I go further, all Marines that are in the chamber if you will please stand. Ladies and gentlemen of the House, the chair is delighted to extend a warm welcome and a courtesy of the gallery to the checkerboards and their wives. Please stand and let us welcome and honor you. Ladies and gentlement, the chair would also like to extend the courtesies of the gallery on behalf of all members to one of our former members and a marine and former Speaker of the House, Speaker Matt Reading. Please stand and let us welcome you. House Resolution 572 the clerk will read. [SPEAKER CHANGES] House Resolution 572, a House Resolution honoring the North Carolina extension and Community Association Incorporated on the hundredth anniversary of its founding. The House resolves. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Hurley, does the lady wish to have the resolution read in its entirety? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes sir, thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The clerk will read. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Whereas the full run of the modern Extension and Community Association in North Carolina was extension homemakers and homes demonstration. And whereas in 1911 doctor I. O. Schwab recruited Jane S McKimmon for the position as the first North Carolina State home demonstration agent. And whereas beginning a hundred years ago, Jane S. McKimmon worked to improve the quality of rural life and helped this state prevail during the great depression and two world wars by deformation fo the community clubs of volunteers to support the work of home demonstration. And whereas North Carolina federation of home demonstration clubs merged with the state council of negro home demonstration clubs of North Carolina to become North Carolina Extension Homemakers Association in 1966. And North Carolina Extension and Community Association in 1999. And whereas North Carolina Extension and Community Association was lead through the last century by a succession of outstanding leaders, including Dr. Jane S. McKimmon, Ada Della Posa, Dr. Judy Mock, Dr. Martha Johnson, Dr. Sandy Zazlo, And Dr. Marshall Sprit from North Carolina State University and North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University. And whereas from its modes beginnings extension and home community association has grown to a diverse wide-ranging statewide organization of adult volunteers supporting the professional extension staff from North Carolina's two land grant universities: North Carolina Agricultural
technical state university in Greensboro, and North Carolina State university in Raleigh. Whereas the extension in committee association is organized in all of North Carolina's 100 counties, and the North Carolina Cherokee reservation, and whereas extension and community association views the family in all its diverse forms as the cornerstone of a healthy society, and provides research based programming to support families. Whereas the North Carolina extension and community association will be celebrating its centennial anniversary formally on October 27, 2013, and throughout 2013. Now, therefore, be it resolved by the house of representatives, section one, the house of representatives honors the life and memory of Jane S. Mckimmon, whose steadfast dedication and far-reaching vision established the foundation upon which to today's North Carolina extension and community association is built. Section two, the house of representatives congratulates the North Carolina extension and community association on the attainment of its centennial anniversary, and thanks all ECA volunteers and FCS liaison agents and specialists past and present for their outstanding contributions to the improvement of the quality of life for families in our state. Section three, the principal clerk shall transmit a certified copy of this resolution to Dr. Joe Gumbala and Dr. Marshall Stewart at North Carolina State University. Section four, the resolution effective upon adoption. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Hurley is recognized to debate the resolution. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Women have always been the heart and soul of the family in the home. As nurturers, they have an unlimited capacity to want to make things better for our families and communities. And when we were asked to do this resolution, I was so honored to be asked to help do it, because I didn't realize all the things that these women have been responsible for. I want to name a few, and then it will be others who will be speaking to it. During world war two, home demonstration led counties to recycle scrap metal, grease, paper and nylon hose for the war effort. Home demonstration joined North Carolina federation of women's clubs and Nor Klein nurses association to raise four million dollars to commission the U.S. army hospital ship, the Larkspur. And in recycling still today, they advocate for recycling programs in communities across the state, including providing education to general public about the benefits of recycling, and working with local decision makers for recycling facilities in rural areas. They have provided millions of dollars in loans and scholarships to college bound students since the 1930s. Today, the organization at the state, district, and county levels provide almost $200,000 in scholarships and loans per year to deserving students to help them further their education and improve their economic status. Home demonstration raise monies to purchase books and book mobiles, the forerunner of our public libraries and rural counties. Often, the first libraries were housed in the extension offices. I commend the resolution to you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Mobley, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Speak on the resolution. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady is recognized to debate the resolution. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Several areas that have benefited us as a result of this resolution. One being the rural electrification. Through advocacy, home demonstration helped bring electricity to North Carolina, to the rural citizens in particular. I can truly remember when electricity first came to my home. We lived back up a lane, maybe it was the woods, because there was no other house back there but ours. But I do remember well when we stopped using that kerosene lamp, and REA was responsible for us getting light. Some accomplishments come by community canneries. During world war one, North Carolina's governor selected Jane Mckimmons to direct the food conservation program. Home demonstration trained and operated community canneries. Today, FCS is the only community resource or Home Food preservation. That I remember as well. At the high school that I attended, when it was prior
Integration. During the summer, there was a cannery operated on our campus. On the high school campus. And we always looked forward to gathering our vegetables, and our fruits to carry to the cannery. Apple sauce was probably my favorite. Didn't particularly care for corn, but that was another thing that my mother did. And it was interesting how the person responsible for the cannery would allow us to stock up these tin cans and you stored your vegetables or fruits in those tin cans. And after about a week or two, you could come back and collect them. So that was an interesting process that we were able to endure. Farmer markets and local foods. During the Great Depression, home demonstration led the efforts to establish relief gardens and curb markets where home makers could supplement family income. Today there is hundreds of community gardens through the efforts of extension. Recently, my church, in conjunction with A&T state university, established a garden at our church. That is a community garden. They haven't progressed enough to start selling anything. They just kind of give it away when the season is available. I recommend the resolution to you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Martin, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Speak on the resolution. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady is recognized to debate the resolution. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, mister speaker. I'm sharing a few more accomplishments of this organization. School cafeterias. Today's school cafeterias resulted from home demonstration agents and club members organizing and serving hot lunches in North Carolina's public schools during the nineteen thirties. The family consumer sciences and extension and community associations continue to work in the area of good nutrition for children. The cotton mattress program. In the nineteen forties, North Carolina realized a cotton surplus. Our women were taught to make mattresses. A hundred twenty five thousand low income families were reached. Over two hundred twenty one thousand mattresses and almost fifty five thousand comforters were made. I commend the resolution to you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further discussion? Further debate? If not, the question before the house is the adoption of house resolution 572. All if favor, vote aye. All opposed, vote no. The clerk will open the vote. The clerk will lock the machine and record the vote. One hundred fifteen having voted in the affirmative and none in the negative. House resolution 572 has been adopted. And will be ordered printed. Ladies and gentlemen of the house, upon motion of representative Pat Hurley and all the members of this body, chair is happy to extend the courtesies of the gallery to representatives from across the state who are members of the North Carolina extension and community association or work with that association. Those include Wanda Denning from Wake county. Laura Lloyd, Orange county. Barbara Looney, Cabarrus county. Roxy Rainer, Wayne county. Louis ??, Wayne county. Doris Davis, Randolph county. Susan ??, Randolph county. Fey ??, Durham county. Joyce ??, Cabarrus county. Pat ??, Cabarrus county. ?? ??, Person county. Jennifer Grable, Person county. Leena Darden, Pitt county. Jame McBurney, extension agent, Johnson county. Michele Estrada, extension agent, Wayne county. And Jerry Bushel, extension liaison for North Carolina state university. Please stand and let us welcome you. Thank you all for your hard work. Ladies and gentlemen, I've been advised by the rules chair that to ?? on some of these committee reports will allow the clerk to begin to work
as a timer on some of the desired, we have a 5 minutes before the Indian Valley on a house call 589 ?? and Ripken's record as supporting importantly visit, a maker of time until the house bill 68 and NT and one reservation of all tables the sentinel table is time you open a substitute bill, written on table count house bills and 6 to 1 examples of electrical all the pool tables the substitute on table as I mentioned below a substitute bill Cower resigned on cable, Howe bill late 19th of this 104 remaining review of Haydn’s the psyche of the police and the racial deal may substitute bill cotter is a builder time the section of the house bill 279 transferred by the word is that most decent the number two all paid well as to the exception of 1 May substitute on time, reserve may substitute one table, persons like index and recognizing forth it was partly that's in line didn't explain what I call for the house bill 66 all, I see that and statements made seven of eight was the result of a substitute bill, resolved on table, personnel costs recognizing for the report partly Maxine Collins was a personnel committee has only 91 of the service environment capable, house bill 317 on that makes the firefighters were, and ride, insert a party products will be referred to the mailbox person started the recognize import it was partly as a part of a trial or judiciary subcommittee the house bill 369 increased help the single-sign all in the house bill send it to safer for recreational use active tables of a substitute up a run as a visual mail may substitute bill, resolved all the time, the sending of the house bill that can they visited the site to number 200 was decent enough time we send students encountered result or a substitute one table, person account was recognize important for the courtly message and has copies of the house of a time value to that house resolution recognizing she was a 2000 that Westside State university football team and all the crowd and the place of the retirees and on April 27 and me, activity, and the doubtless certain facts that have been able for the production until time of house building 13, as these symbols favorable, house resolution to get off the pots and pans of a substitute resolution unfavorable as to the racial resolution may substitute resolution dollar freight 25 regional resolution was able to own person is why don't they recognize time importantly message is black, white writing operations subcommittee on education times before 50 to 2030 school safety at the police in the sense to numbers and operate was driving sub the number one in a sub students encountered a substitute one unstable counter person is doesn't like in runtime support importantly-Johnson of wind and education committee passed bill 765 for instruction time or school like it's been a blessing of the subsidy of innocent on selling driving judiciary subcommittee may be quite a substitute bill will be referred to judiciary subcommittee and resolved on cable, Howe bill times to buy special election, counting more support date: Salem and I'm not one and only refer to the committee of the house bill Sanders into some of the Kansan was the exception of paper with times will help a substitute bill Cower result on cable, Howe bill may find it more as bills and place of incest in operate was a visual mail a substitute bill, received on their timecards in the body and presidents Howard Rollins recognizing for the record for only the second time-sensitive eyes to the house bill 340 ??..............
…lines, travel insurance favorable. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Calendar. [SPEAKER CHANGES] House Bill 466. Amend private, protective services act fees, favorable. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Calendar. [SPEAKER CHANGES] House Bill 524, Greensborough Charter Amendments, favorable. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Calendar. [SPEAKER CHANGES] House Bill 325, Park fees for active duty military veterans, favorable and serially referred to appropriations. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The Committee Substitute will be re-referred to the Committee on Appropriations. [SPEAKER CHANGES] House Bill 671, Mills River De-annexation, favorable and serially referred to government. [SPEAKER CHANGES] House Bill 671 will be referred to the Committee on Government. [SPEAKER CHANGES] House Bill 35, Favorable, Repeals State Capital Facilities Finance Act, favorable is to the Committee Substitute, unfavorable is to the original bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Committee Substitute Bill Calendar, original bill unfavorable. Calendar. Representative Hollo and Jones are recognized in 4th Committee Report, the clerk will read. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representatives Hollo and Jones, Health and Human Services Committee, House Bill 609, North Carolina Cancer Treatment Fairness Act, favorable is to the Committee Substitute, unfavorable is to the original bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Committee Substitute Bill Calendar, original bill unfavorable, calendar. [SPEAKER CHANGES] House Bill 173, Revised Controlled Substances Reporting, favorable. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Calendar. [SPEAKER CHANGES] House Bill 543, MHDDSA Providers as Uncompensated Guardians, favorable to the Committee Substitute, unfavorable is to the original bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Committee Substitute Bill, calendar. Original bill, unfavorable, calendar. [SPEAKER CHANGES] House Bill 605, Establish Aging Subcommittee HHS Oversight, favorable as to the Committee Substitute, unfavorable is to the original bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Committee Substitute Bill, calendar. Original bill, unfavorable, calendar. [SPEAKER CHANGES] House Bill 704, Study to Encourage the Use of Pella Medicine, favorable as to the Committee Substitute, unfavorable is to the original bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Committee Substitute Bill, calendar. Original bill, unfavorable, calendar. [SPEAKER CHANGES] House Bill 492, Care to Medicaid Personal Care Services for Alzheimer’s and Dementia, favorable as to the Committee Substitute, unfavorable is to the original bill, and serially referred to Appropriations. [SPEAKER CHANGES] House Bill 492 will be re-referred to the Committee on Appropriations. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Committee Substitute number 1 for Senate Bill 83, Encourage Volunteer Care at Free Clinics, favorable is to the House Committee Substitute, unfavorable is to the Senate Committee Substitute. [SPEAKER CHANGES] House Committee Substitute Bill, calendar. Original Senate Committee Substitute, unfavorable, calendar. Representative Dockham is recognized in the 4th Committee Report. The clerk will read. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Dockham for the Insurance Committee, House Bill 473, North Carolina Captive Insurance Act, favorable as to the Committee Substitute, unfavorable is to the original bill, and serially referred to Commerce and Job Development. [SPEAKER CHANGES] House Bill 473 will be re-referred to the Committee on Commerce and Job Development. Original bill unfavorable, calendar. Representatives Brawley and Iler are recognized in the 4th Committee Report. The clerk will read. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Brawley, William Braweley and Iler Transportation Committee, House Bill 513, Clarify Dealer Plates Law, favorable as to the Committee Substitute, unfavorable is to the original bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Committee Substitute, favorable. Original bill, unfavorable, calendar. SPEAKER CHANGES] House Bill 673, Bioptic lenses for Driver’s License Tests, favorable as to the Committee Substitute, unfavorable is to the original bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Committee Substitute Bill, calendar. Original bill, unfavorable, calendar. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Ladies and gentlemen of the House, the Chair would like to extend a welcome to the nurse of the day. The nurse of the day is Alice, or Mary Alice Hyde, from Shelby, North Carolina. Mary Alice please stand and let us welcome you. Thank you for your service. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Speaker? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Adams, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I have a point of personal privilege. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The House will come to order. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady is recognized for a point of personal privilege. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Speaker. I just wanted to acknowledge that today is Administrative Assistant Day, and I just wanted to congratulate all of our Administrative Assistants for all of the wonderful work they do for helping us to do the work that we do. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Ladies and gentlemen we are about to take up the debate on the last item on the calendar for today.
Representative: …the chair has in its possession some 8-9 amendments. It is the intent of the chair to allow full debate from anyone who wishes to speak throughout the amendment process, as well as the bill. The debate will not be limited as dictated by the rules. For those in the gallery, this is a matter that I am sure many of you are aware of, it is a matter that has passion on both sides of the issue. The chair would simply remind you that any disruptions in the gallery, either in a positive or negative manner, will be met with a recess and a clearing of the gallery so that we can continue a civil debate. House bill 589, the clerk will read. Clerk: Committee substitute 3 for house bill 589, a bill entitle dan act to restore confidence in the government by establishing voter information verification act to promote the electoral process through education and pre-registration of voters, and by requiring voters to provide photo identification before voting, to protect the right of each voter in casting a secure vote with reasonable security measures that confirm voter identity as accurately as possible, without restriction. NC general assembly enacts. Speaker: Representative Lewis, please state your purpose. Representative: To speak on the bill. Speaker: The gentleman is recognized to debate the bill. The house will come to order. Representative: Mr. Speaker and ladies and gentleman of the house. I rise today to speak about the open and transparent process this house, under the duration of our speaker, has taken in developing the voter ID bill, now before us. In the development of this bill, the elections committee held two extended committee meeting where experts on the merits and implementation of voter ID have made presentation and answered questions. Experts who spoke in favor included Civitas and the heritage foundation. Those who have opposed include the southern coalition for democracy, democracy CNC, the NC NAACP, and the brennan center. The committee has also received testimony from elected administrators in Georgia, Indiana, and Florida. Further, and perhaps more importantly, we held two public hearings where any citizen wishing to comment on the concept of voter ID was invited to do so. Input from these was appreciated and used in formatting the bill that is before this house today. The bill was then heard, debated and amended in three distinct committees, including elections finance and appropriation s. I note that every member of this body is a member of at least one of those committees. This means that the development of this bill before us includes more than eight hours of public comment and more than nine hours of committee time. There have been more than twenty amendments offered, debated and voted on in committee. Every member wishing to amend this bill was given the opportunity. I say all that to say that this has been a fair, open and transparent process, as we have committed, it would be. So why are we here today? We are here today to pose our system of government depends on open and honest elections. Having people prove who is they say they are a s a condition of voting, makes sense and guarantees that each vote is weighed equally and cumulatively determines the outcome of the election. I am not the only one who things this: in 2005, the federal election reform commission, headed by former president Jimmy Carter, and former secretary of state, James Baker, stated that the electoral system cannot inspire public confidence if no safeguards exist to deter or detect fraud
Or to confirm the identity of voters. Photos, ID currently are needed to board a plane, enter Federal buildings, or cash a check. Voting is equally important." We are here today, because seven out of 10 North Carolinians understand and support this concept and this idea. We are here today, because when voters are disenfranchised by the county of improperly cast ballots, or outright fraud, their civil rights are violated just as surely as if they had been denied the chance to vote. So let's talk a bit about some of the things that we've heard discussed in committee. Let's talk about disenfranchisement. We're told, we're led to believe by talking point after talking point that the institution of a photo voter ID requirement reduces electoral participation, especially among minority groups. I stand before you today to tell you that there is absolute hard, imperical evidence, proof in state after state after state that has done this that that is not true. In fact, minority participation after the institution of the voter ID law has gone up as a percentage. We've also been told this thing is a poll tax. I'm going to respond to that simply by reading from a Supreme Court decision. Such an argument represents a dramatic overstatement of what fairly constitutes a poll tax. Thus, the imposition of ?? burdens does not transform a regulation into a poll tax. Moreover, the cost of time and transportation cannot plausibly qualify as a prohibited poll tax, because those same costs also result from voter registration and in person voting requirements, which one would not reasonably construe as a poll tax. We have heard in this process that there are concerns over absentee votes. So, to prove that the words and the members and the general public who came forward and expressed concern, as a sign of good faith that their advice and input was heated, you will find that absentee voters are addressed in this bill. I've also heard, very recently about the cost of this bill. And I'm sure that's going to come up today. And most of the time, when I hear about the cost it's always in the respective of do we really need this, what voter fraud is there? My favorite one came in an e-mail, where a person done a statistical that all of our sacred constitutional rights are upheld. I'm proud of the effort of this house so far. I appreciate the hard work of the bill's sponsors. And I commend the bill to you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Warren, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To make a request from the speaker of taking testimony, doing research and seriously addressing the concerns of people who have expressed opposition to securing the vote. I'm going to cover several parts of the bill, and then ask the other bill sponsor
answers to cover different segments as well. And I'm going to start out with you on page 1, part 1, and talk about VIVA. VIVA stands for the Voter Information Verification Agency which will be appointed by the, Advisory Board, excuse me, which will be appointed by the State Board ?? by the County in a sincere effort to get to people and educate them on the provisions of the bill and again to encourage participation in the voter process. There is by no means in any of this section anything that would pertain to suppression or voter disenfranchising. The entire intent of this 24 month program ?? was talking about earlier. Part 2 refers to the photo identification requirement for balloting in person. It says here that every individual voting in person in accordance with this article must present a photo identification bearing a reasonable resemblance to that person. In a few minutes Representative Murray will talk about register voting curbside in ?? Photo identification as outlined in this bill and I will cover these with you and you can see it on page 2, item E1, an identification card that bears either a date of expiration or a date of issuance that is no more than 10 years beyond the date of expiration or issuance, whichever is later, issued by a branch, department, agency or entity of the United States, this state or any other state and those identifications would include a North Carolina drivers license, a learners permit or provisional license, a North Carolina special identification card for non-operators, a US Passport, an employee identification, under this category an identification card issued for government programs of public assistance. These cards almost all have either a date of issuance or a date of expiration and a photo. Secondly, a veterans identification card issued by the United States Department of Veteran Affairs that's used for Veterans Administration medical facilities and also qualifying as an identification card that bears a date of expiration that is not expired on the date that the voter reached the age of 70 that was issued by a branch, department, agency or entity of the United States, this state or any other state. I'm going to ask you to turn now to what I have as page 13, section 17. This refers to the education and publicity promotion and there's a lot of things enumerated here most of which are existing. These are all provisions that would be utilized by the VIVA Program as well as the BOE. We did have some amendments throughout the process where people wanted to dictate basically what shall be used but we did not want to limit the BOE to how it should address these different media and ways of getting out the education to the voters. So you have those all listed in there. Section 20 is a part of the bill that directs the State Board of Elections to review and make recommendations back to the Joint Legislative Elections Oversight Committee by April 1st of next year 2014 regarding the concept of establishing a state-wide digital photo data base as another means of enrolling folks in the electoral process to make it easier not only for people to comply with the requirements of this bill but also for the voting process, to expedite it and to make it easier for the BOE. This program feasibly could have voter recognition and an interstate agreement for sharing information on votes that were cast. And finally under Section 22, this section refers to the phase-in part of the bill which is spread over a very generous two year period to educate and to enroll people and to help people find and acquire acceptable means of photo id. And I'd like to call your attention to item 5 under section 22 and that starts a process whereby in elections in 2014
...forward, voters will be asked, at the poll, if they have a photo ID. They will not be required to have one to vote, but would be polled to see if they do have one. Voters who identify themselves as not having one will be asked if they need help or assistance in acquiring one, at which point, that information will be turned over to the local VIVA organization there, or the local party chairs who work with VIVA in helping get to these people, and to help them acquire a photo ID. At this point I'd like to turn the microphone over to Representative Murry to cover several other parts of the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Ladies and gentlemen, without exception or without objections, Rule 12D is suspended. Is there objection? Representative Murry, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To debate the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr Speaker. If you will turn to Page Three of the bill and look at Section Five, that begins the section that deals with curbside voting, and voters who are qualified but because of physical disability and physical barriers at the voting place, are unable to vote – walk in, physically walk in to the polling location. It allows for, in addition to presenting a photo ID, they can present a copy of a document listed in a general statute commonly known as a (HAVA?) document for persons with disabilities. This is an exemption that allows persons with disabilities, because of that physical disability who can't walk into the polling location, and the State Board of Elections is directed to promulgate rules and regulations for the implementation of that. Moving on to Page Six, Section 11: this deals with how provisional ballots are counted due to failure to provide a photo identification when voting in person. As Representative Warren mentioned, if an individual presents themselves for an Election Day or at an early voting site without a photo ID, they will be offered the opportunity to case a Provisional Ballot, and before noon on the day of canvas, they have to present themselves back to the Board of Elections with a photo ID in order to have that vote counted, and that's detailed in Section 11. In Section 12, most of Section 12 on Page Seven is existing law. This just adds the ability for a voter to be challenged by any member. Any active voter in that precinct who doesn't present themselves with a photo ID, that is another reason why a voter could be challenged at the precinct. The challenge process is already laid out in existing law, and this just simply adds that photo identification, in accordance with this new law, is another reason for challenge. That concludes the sections of the legislation that I'm prepared to present, but I will also add, there will be – if anyone should have a question about the North Carolina Constitution, or just exactly what our provisions in the North Carolina Constitution contains, I would be glad to answer and engage in discussion about the North Carolina Constitution. Or if you want to talk about the Rational Basis Test under the 14th amendment of the US Constitution, feel free to direct those questions to me, and I will gladly be able to answer any specific Constitutional questions that you might have. But at this point, Representative Samuelson would like to continue discussion of the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Samuelson, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To debate the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady is recognized to debate the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Well, my colleagues here have done a great job of helping you understand that you're going to need a photo ID to vote by 2016. One of the things we wanted to do was to make that as easy as possible. So if you'll look on Page Seven, Line 19, we start Part Three, which is the implementation piece, and it has to do with the fees. If someone does not have a driver's license and does not have any of the other types of IDs provided, we have made provision for them to get a free non-operator ID card at the DMV. Already DMV issues these cards to certain individuals for free, and if you look here, it has the list of them: if someone is legally blind, or at least 70 years old, or had a driver's license and had it removed for some reason so they now need a non-operator card., or they're homeless. What we have added are two sections, Five and Section Six. Five says that if you are only getting – or your primary reason, because we know people will use these, which is one of the benefits, they'll use them for other things – but if your primary reason for seeking [RECORDING ENDS]
An ID card is for the purpose of voting. You may sign an affidavit to that effect saying that that is why you are getting the non-ID, the non-operator card and you will get that card for free. One of the things that we added to this at the request of some of the members of the committee was since people can already go into the DMV if they’re getting their driver’s license and getting registered to vote, if some one was going in to get their non-operator’s card and they were not registered to vote, how would they be able to get this card if they were having to make multiple trips? What we did was we added section 6, so if some one comes in, registers to vote and says that they were coming in for the purpose of registering to get their ID card, they may also get it free under that case. Section 14 goes through how we will compensate DMV and the clerks and registrars for this because for some people, they need not only the card, but they may need a copy of the documentation that will enable them to get the card, which could be a birth certificate or a marriage certificate. So we did not want to have this as an unfunded mandate to the county departments and so this is how they would compensate it. And under the same scenario, the person goes in and says I’m a registered voter and signs an affidavit under perjury, the penalty of perjury that says, I’m needing this documentation so I can go get a non-operator card for the purpose of voting. The clerk will then verify that they are a registered voter either by looking them up online, calling the Board of Elections office, or, if the individual actually has their voter registration card, they may present it. Then, if you will look forward to page 11 line 21, we get to the issue of absentee ballots. Currently, there is posted a form similar to the one I have here, which anyone can come look at if they’d like, for people who are requesting absentee ballots, but there are also other ways that you can get them. Under the Bill, what you would do if you want an absentee ballot is you would either go online or you could call the Board of Elections and ask for this form or you could write the Board of Elections and ask for this form and they would make sure, or someone else could give you this form. But you would get this form and fill it out and mail it in in order to get an absentee ballot. What we’ve changed on this is we’ve added that you need to put some sort of information on their like your driver’s license number or the last 4 digits of your Social Security number or you can get a HAVA document on it. For those of you are pages that will soon be going off to college, we still will allow your parents or legal guardians to request the form for you if they need to so that you can vote in the county where you should be registered to vote. So you send this in and then they will verify it when it gets to the Board of Elections. If the information checks out, then they will mail you your absentee ballot. If there is a question they need from it, they can contact you to get that information from it and because depending on how and when you registered, you may have your Social Security number or your driver’s license, by signing this, you are also giving the Board of Elections the opportunity to update their database so that if you one year provide your driver’s license and one year provide your Social Security number, they would have that information and be able to verify it. They will then mail you the absentee ballot. You will on both of these forms now need 2 witnesses and your witnesses will need to put their name and address so if there is a challenge to it, they will be able to find your witnesses and you can send those back in. The other change would be on page 13 line 12. I mentioned to the pages that your parent, you’re your legal guardian, could sign and order a form for you. Well there are people who do not have what we would normally think of as a regular, verifiable, legal guardian. They may be in an institution where the institution is their legal guardian. So we have made a provision here, and it was originally 3, we changed it to 10 at the request of some of the Disability Rights people so that the person, it may be one person or as many as 500 people for whom they are the technical guardian, that person can’t sign and approve all the forms. So they may appoint up to 10 people to help provide that role form them in the case of needing them for balloting. I think I’ve covered most of the rest. Any types of times when someone is having to sign something under the penalty of perjury, that will be made very clear so they know that and they are not signing something thinking they’re just being friendly and that they know what they’re doing. And then also that the State Board of Elections would reimburse the Division of Motor Vehicles for any expenses that are incurred in it. I urge your support of the Bill and we are open to questions. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative Tine, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Send forth an Amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGE] The gentleman is recognized. Send forth and Amendment. The Clerk will read.
Representative Tine moves to amend the bill on page 2, line 19, by adding the following sentence at the end of that line: [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This amendment is largely about rural access. On your desk you have a sheet which lists 23 counties that have less than 5 days a week access to DMV. Two of those counties are completely without access to DMV. Two of my counties that I represent only have access two days a month to DMV. So what this amendment would do is three things, one is direct ??VIVA to assist in advertising the current access that exists, two, it would allow the counties to offer IDs where the DMV is not available 5 days a week, under the DMV rules, and then also, it would allow the state to reimburse those counties since they are making up for what the DMV would have done already. And also, the third thing is is a technical change that was requested by the bill sponsors that changes the timing to be effective immediately so the process can begin and be reviewed, while the ID requirements would not start still until 2016. I commend the amendment to you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Samuelson, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The bill sponsors have reviewed this worked with Representative Tine appreciated actually his helping us creatively solve an issue. We did want to make the ability to get these cards as reasonably accessible as possible, so we commend the amendment to you and ask for you to vote for it. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further discussion, further debate on the amendment. If not the question before the House is the passage of the amendment sent forth by Representative Tine for the House committee substitute number 3 for House Bill 589. All in favor vote aye, all opposed vote no. The clerk will open the vote. All members wishing to record please do so at this time. The clerk will let the machine record the vote. 116 having voted in the affirmative, none in the negative, the amendment passes. Representative Jackson, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To speak on the bill and send forth an amendment, Mr. Speaker. [SPEAKER CHANGES] In which order does the gentleman wish to be recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I wish to speak just briefly, then I'll.... [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the amendment--or to debate the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and gentlemen, the reason I rise is to talk about absentee ballots and I believe that any voter identification act that we do today should be not only about preventing fraud but not limiting access to the constitutional right to vote. Right now I believe this bill fails on both fronts. If integrity of the vote is truly our goal, then all ballots should be screened for voter ID. All ballots should be treated the same, but this bill doesn't do that. Instead this bill creates two separate classes of voters: those who vote in person and must have a photo ID and those who vote by mail and are not required to have a photo ID. Distinctions like this are what leads to allegations that partisan motivations are behind it. Maybe it's just a coincidence that one party enjoys a substantial advantage in absentee ballots. I don't read minds, so I won't speculate to people's motives. But I don't see any valid reason why you would treat these two types of voters any differently, why you would create two classes. Especially when you look at the numbers. I was unable to get the numbers updated, but I had saved the chart that we were given last time in reference to in-person voting and mail-in absentee voting. And what the board of elections concluded was that in 2010, 0.5 people out of 100,000 votes created in-person, verifiable voter fraud. On absentee ballots in 2010 it was 12.5 people per 100,000. So that's what, 25 times as much, in absentee ballots. The total for the two periods 2008 and 2010 was 4.2 people per 100,000 of absentee voters. So as a percentage, the rate is actually 7 times higher for absentee voter fraud. And if you think about it, it makes sense. If there's a 30 year old who wants to vote for his grandfather, I ask you what is more likely. That he shows up in person on election day to vote for someone that is 60 years older than he is and that they know the date of birth on the....
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If we wanted to treat everybody the same which is what I hear that this is not about separating people that we should treat them all the same. The same ID requirement whether you’re there in person or not for absentee as in person. Whatever is constitutional for one class of voters should be constitutional for all of them. You have the opportunity today right here right now to show this legislation isn’t about partisan gain. That it truly is about fairness. I’d ask for your support. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Samuelson please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Jackson has done a good job of laying out how complicated it was as we were working to try to figure out how do we do absentee balloting and the photo ID in person. It is very complex. And I could go through point by point on all the reasons we picked the things we did. But I’ll just give one example. He talked about the poll workers and you go in, in and the, the poll workers signing off to say they know them. Well, the odds of me finding two people who actually know me to sign it, it’s a lot greater than the odds that I’m a walk in the poll and they’re gonna automatically know who I am. We’ve also got the issue of just because you have a copy of my grandmother’s ID and you mail it in with an absentee and have it signed with my grandmother’s name on it doesn’t mean that was my grandmother sending in the form. So we do request that you not support the amendment. Vote no on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Murray please state you purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would also arise and ask that you do not support this amendment. First the notary public provision of this absentee ballot amendment is, is just completely unworkable. And we’ve had, we’ve had concerns that the two signature requirement was too much. We’ve added, we’ve doubled the signature requirement in this legislation. So I,I think, I think what you’ve got in this legislation we agree that there are, there are some things we need to do to tighten up how absentee ballots are requested. And I would submit that to you that this legislation does that. Now we do, we do require with the form with the standardized form that you have to have a copy of your driver’s license or a copy of a HAVA document. Currently you just have to have a hand writer request. That’s it. In order to get an absentee ballot all you have to do is hand address, hand address, hand write the request out and you get a ballot. We are tightening that up with this legislation. You have to have your last four of your social or a driver’s license number, a HAVA document or a copy of your driver’s license. This is tightening up the absentee process which is good for voter integrity. I would ask that you do not support this amendment and support the bill as originally written to help improve the integrity of the absentee process. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Warren please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To speak to the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I join my fellow primary sponsors and asking you to vote no for the amendment. Again the notarized portion of the amendment itself is problematic and I’m sure that would a cost to the voting process for the notary for the individual as well as a hardship. And the point of the bill is not to create a hardship in the voting process. If for one, if one were to accept this for absentee balloting then it follows natural suit you would want to have the same provision for someone who shows up for curbside balloting which we’ve generous in that respect as well. I urge my colleagues to vote no on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Deborah Ross please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To speak on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you very much Mr. Speaker and ladies and gentleman. I think that probably one of the most important parts of what Representative Jackson shared with you was the facts about the type of voter fraud that’s committed in North Carolina. Though it’s not a lot of voter fraud there’s significantly more voter fraud that is committed with absentee ballots. And that just has not seemed to be a concern when we’ve talked about this bill. There have been some changes. Yes, that’s fine. But there have not been tremendous barriers placed in the, in, in front of people who wanted to do absentee voting. I’m not trying, I’m not saying that we should shut down absentee voting. What I’m saying that if you really care about the integrity of the ballot, don’t talk about people who show up and try to impersonate other people. It rarely happens. Recognize where there have been problems and vote for the solutions. I think that Representative Jackson has done a narrowly tailored rational solution to this problem and if you really care about fraud you would vote
Representative Jackson, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGE] To speak a second time on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGE] The gentleman is recognized a second time to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Thank you. I just wanted to clarify a few things, Mr. Speaker. One, I wanted to make sure people understand this is a photo ID or notary, not both. You don't have the expense of a notary if you have the photo ID. The second thing is, I have a list of states, proved workable in numerous states, having a notary permit. A lot of states have been requiring notary for a lot of years. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Further discussion, further debate on the amendment? If not, the question before the House is the passing of amendment sent forth by Representative Jackson for the house committee, substitute number three for House Bill 589. All in favor vote, aye. All opposed vote, no. The clerk will open the vote. All members wishing to record please do so at this time. The clerk will lock the machine and record the vote. 39 having voting aye, 78 having voted no, the amendment fails. Representative Adams, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wanted to ask Representative Murray a question. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative Murray, does the gentleman yield? [SPEAKER CHANGE] Yes, Sir. [SPEAKER CHANGE] The gentleman yields. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Thank you, Representative Murray. I had this question when you outlined section 9 of the bill, on the curbside voting, would you clarify for me letter E? Does that mean, that the person who brings the voter must also have an ID? I'm not clear about what that is saying. [SPEAKER CHANGE] I'm on my dashboard, so I'm going to sit down. I'm not being disrespectful by sitting down, looking at my computer to get to the section you're looking at. Section 9, part E. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Yes. That would be line 41. [SPEAKER CHANGE] I believe that you're looking at a different version of the bill that's currently before us, because on Section 9 we removed that part in the appropriations committee. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Thank you, Sir. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Thank you, Mam. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative Brandon, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Mr. Speaker, thank you. I was recorded as vote no, I would like to be recorded as voting, aye on the last amendment, please. [SPEAKER CHANGE] The gentleman will be recorded as voting aye, as shown forth by Representative Jackson. Representative Graham, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGE] To send forth an amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGE] The gentleman is recognized to send forth an amendment. The clerk will read. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative C. Graham moves to amend the bill on page 3, lines 27 to 29, by rewriting those lines to read. [SPEAKER CHANGE] The gentleman is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Members, we have identified a process in this legislation to recognize our federal tribes of North Carolina, this amendment addresses the issue of allowing our state tribes to use their tribal card as an official document for the purpose of voting. Those tribes are the ??, the ??, the Lumbe, the O'Harian, the ??, ?? of the ?? nation, the ??, and the ?? tribes. This amendment will give these tribal members, who are enrolled and who have an official tribal card, an opportunity to use that document for the purpose of displaying and having a ballot. I have a copy of my tribal card, this card was issued and it was issued in accordance to our process to receiving that card. I had to present several documents to prove who I was, that I am a member of the tribe, I had to submit a certified birth certificate. I had to have my parents certified birth certificate documented, I had to go through a number of steps to prove I was a tribal member. Once that process was
…completed, I was issued a tribal card and my tribe has my picture, my physical address at home, the date of issue, expiration date, and my tribal enrollment number. Ladies and gentlemen, I ask you to support this amendment. It is worthy of all the tribes to have this opportunity. I appreciate your support and I commend this amendment to you. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Samuelson, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Now, we appreciate Representative Graham working on this. We intend to support this amendment. However, we realize now that we've got the most recent copy of the draft that there is a technical error as to the number on it and where it supposed to be. So, if we could – if the amendment sponsor will be willing to displace it temporarily while we get the numbers lined up correctly we would appreciate it. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Graham, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] That's fine, Mr. Speaker, thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The amendment sent forth by Representative Graham will be temporarily displaced. Representative Adams, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I like to send forth an amendment, Mr. Speaker. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady is recognized to send forth an amendment. The clerk will read. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Adams moves to amend the bill on page 3 lines 29 and 30 by inserting the following between those lines. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and gentleman of the House, many of you probably know that I spent 40 years of my life in higher education teaching at Bennett College in Greensboro. Our education has had a stellar reputation in North Carolina with our 16 public universities, our 36 private colleges in universities. And we spend a lot of time involving students in civic engagement, and pressing upon them the need to be responsible citizens by voting. And overall, students have demonstrated that they are interested in their state, local and national government. After all what we do in fact, and in fact impacts them in terms of the laws that we passed, our private colleges and our universities and the students who attend them should be valued equally and voting privileges should be valued equally as well. And many of these schools are in our districts and many of us in this House at least 30 members in this house and I've provided a list for you, have attended these institutions, have earned degrees from them and some of you have earned two degrees from more than one private institution. And those of us who may not have attended them have them in our districts. I was privileged to study at North Carolina A&T State University. This amendment that was just read is really about giving citizens of our state who happen to be students attending private colleges and universities the same rights that we are affording in this bill to students who attend our public universities as it relates to ID cards issued by their schools to be accepted when they vote. Now, you need to know that 16 states already require a college ID for students to vote and none of them make a distinction between public and private university student IDs. All students are treated equally. And if you look at the cards that I have provided for you, I have public university, private university as well. You see the student's photo, you see the student's name, the ID number and the expiration date. And the school that they attend is identified on the card as well. So this is a good amendment, it's really about fairness. It is the right thing to do and I would appreciate your support for the many students who you represent who are constituents in your districts, who are attending schools in North Carolina and who help make this state as rich as it is. And I would appreciate your support and I commend the amendment to you. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Samuelson, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] For those of you all who sat through all the other committees we had, this has come up regularly and in fact I wanted to thank Representative Adams for giving us a nice picture of one of our own Sergeant-at-Arms who I didn't know was in law school, so I'd like to commend him the next time I see him. However, the reason we have not included them is because we always have to draw the line somewhere and so we say we would do government issued IDs. Once we go to private universities then what about our businesses, Bank of America is a large business that has…
ID cards but then you get down to the smaller business’s ID card. We had to draw the line somewhere. We also had the issue of what constitutes actually being a college in North Carolina now that you’ve got more online educational tools. So we decided to draw the line at government issued ID’s. Any of those students that go to the private universities are likely to have driver’s licenses and if by some chance they don’t have another form of government issued ID we will be happy to help them get a non-operator ID card that will qualify for them to vote and make sure that they know about it through the VIVA program that will be sure to educate them on how to get that card should they need it. We ask you to vote against the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mister Speaker. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Adams, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I’d like to ask the lady a question. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Samuelson does the lady yield. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I yield. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Samuelson as it relates to students who attend these colleges and universities who have ID, who have driver’s licenses are we going to recognize a driver’s license from a state that I come from like New Jersey? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes if it’s not expired or it’s within the time limits on there. If it has a date of issuance or a date of expiration and has their picture on it and it’s a photo ID. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Follow up? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Does the lady yield? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I yield. [SPEAKER CHANGES] But you really think we should draw the line and not allow these students who attend these universities that by the way we do support. We provide tuition, scholarships to students who attend our public universities, our private schools because there are 89000 students. 89000 students in these 36 schools, who attend these colleges and so you really think that we should draw the line and ex out these 89000 students? [SPEAKER CHANGES] We’re not ex-ing out those students. We’re making sure that people who have a government issued photo ID are allowed to vote and we will do everything we can to make sure they’re included in that. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Luebke please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To speak on the ?? actually if I might speak to ask Representative Samuelson a question. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Samuelson does the lady yield? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I yield. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady yields. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Representative Samuelson. I ask you this in the finance committee and I know that there’s sociologically and there’s a difference between Duke students and NCCU students but I just can’t understand and want you to again explain why I should tell a constituent who is from NCCU that you’re okay, you can run on down with that ID and vote but tell a student from Duke that he or she can’t do that. I just don’t understand why you drew the line where you did. It seems to me you could just as easily draw the line and include all college students as being eligible with their student IDs to vote. What’s wrong with that? [SPEAKER CHANGES] We could’ve drawn the line in a number of places. We chose the cleanest and clearest way to do it was to draw it on government issued IDs and we would do everything we could to make sure they had access to those IDs should they need them. [SPEAKER CHANGES] May I speak on the amendment? [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mister Speaker, members. This is a good amendment simply because it will allow all college students to have equality in terms of their ability to vote. Drawing the line, I don’t think that Representative Samuelson said anything except she has to draw the line somewhere but certainly college students are essentially all alike in terms of their decision to register to vote at their college address which where they are nine months of the year. That is supported by the courts so they may do that notwithstanding a bill that got filed in the Senate running contrary to that. It just makes no sense to me and I don’t think really if you represent Davidson, the area around Davidson College or Livingston College, ?? College or Barton College, how can you really defend that to those students that they have, they can’t just use their student ID to vote? So I know these amendments are going down but I don’t think you can explain it logically to students, to those college students in your district. So thank you. Hope you’ll support the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Hastings please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To see if Representative Adams would yield for a friendly question. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Adams does the lady yield? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I yield. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady yields. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Adams I was just going to ask you this list that was passed out that mentioned private colleges or private schools attended. I going to ask where did you get this information? [SPEAKER CHANGES] It’s public information. I got it around here in the General Assembly, my office and I worked on it. Did we leave your name off? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mister Speaker may I speak on the bill please? [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman may debate the amendment before us not the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mister Speaker I stand corrected. May I debate the amendment?
the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Mr. Speaker I just wanted to note that I did attend Gardner Webb University in Cleveland County and they defeated the South Carolina Gamecocks in baseball yesterday and I would defer to the bill sponsors and their opinion on this amendment. Go Bulldogs. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative Blazer please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGE] To speak briefly on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGE] The gentleman is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I was interested in Representative Samuelson's response to Representative Adams and Representative Samuelson said that's just where the government or where they chose to draw the line. Governments do draw lines. Government line drawing on fundamental constitutional rights is a treacherous business. They have to be drawn where there is a compelling governmental interest to draw that particular line and that line has to be very narrowly tailored and drawn and since their record is absolutely shorn of any evidence anywhere in any hearing that the ID's at Methodist University or Bennett or Peace or Davidson or Wake Forest are any less reliable or valid that those at Fayetteville State or Carolina or Western Carolina and because those are exactly the same students trying to use their ID's in exactly the same way and with no evidence in the record to make this classification, the classification being made is quentisentially arbitrary and capricious and sets up a major and first constitutional test of this legislation and it is precisely the reason that so far as I can tell almost no other state in the union that has voter ID laws makes this distinction. For that reason I am going to be voting for the amendment and for those of you that want to preserve this bill, I would hope that you would be voting for it as well. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative Floyd, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGE] To ask the bill sponsor a question, Mr. Speaker. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative Adams, does the lady yield? [SPEAKER CHANGE] I'm sorry [SPEAKER CHANGE] I yield. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative Adams, just for clarity because Representative Sanders just mentioned Bank of America and I am not that familiar but the language on page 3, line 9D, in response to Representative Sanders' question maybe that could help explain the question. Well it says employee identification card. Representative Sanders mentioned Bank of America. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Was that question for me? [SPEAKER CHANGE] If the members will direct their discussion through the chair. Representative Floyd, does the gentleman wish to redirect the question to one of the bill sponsors? [SPEAKER CHANGE] I will wait, Mr. Speaker. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative Avila, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGE] May I ask Representative Samuelson a question please? [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative Samuelson, does the lady yield? [SPEAKER CHANGE] I yield. [SPEAKER CHANGE] I need a little point of clarification. As I keep reading through the list of the acceptable documents and the justification for doing it, doesn't the fact that there is some degree of control by the government over the issuance of these licenses, an area of authority that we would not have over a private entity, say a Bank of America or a Duke University? [SPEAKER CHANGE] Yes, you could use the word control or you could just verifiability that they would have a little bit more knowledge of what's been involved in them. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative Starnes, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGE] To debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGE] The gentleman is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and gentlemen of the House, certainly we've got some very skilled debaters in this body and I don't want to match wits with them but I don't want to leave the impression that has been made that there are 89,000 students that will be disenfranchised if this amendment is not adopted. There are very few college students in this state no matter where they go to school and that don't have a driver's license. When you go to vote you show a state issued ID which is for all practical purposes a driver's license. Now there are going to be a handful of students for various reasons that don't have a driver's license and in that instance then they can show their student ID but for most parts, don't be fooled into thinking that there are 89,000 students that are going to be disenfranchised. The vast majority have a driver's license. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative Murray, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGE] To debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGE] The gentleman is recognized to debate the amendment. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would ask
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I had my card issued. Six years ago there was a charge. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Does the gentlemen yield? The gentlemen yields. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, I do. [SPEAKER CHANGES] How much is that charge? [SPEAKER CHANGES] If I remember correctly, representative Starnes, I think it may have been five dollars. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further discussion, further debate on the amendment, if not the question before the house is the passage of the amendment sent forth by representative Charles Graham to the house committee substitute number three for house bill five eighty nine. All in favor vote aye, all opposed vote no. The clerk will open the vote. The clerk will obviously record the vote. One hundred and nine having voted the affirmative and nine in the negative, the amendment passes. Representative Fisher, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I sent forth an amendment Mr. Speaker. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady is recognized to send forth an amendment the clerk will read.[SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Fisher, moves to amend the bill on page two, lines thirty-seven and thirty-eight, by inserting the following between those lines. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Speaker. Ladies and gentlemen this just adds one more exception to the list of exceptions on page two for people who, for people whom the governor or president of the United States has declared their county a disaster area. It will give them the opportunity to cast a vote without having a photo ID, considering it may have been lost with the rest of their belongings or for whatever reason they may have been displaced. And this is something that we can sort of relate to the hurricanes in New Jersey. We're looking at a small window of time here where people would have to come up with a driver's license, get into their polling place to vote, and this exception just allows them to have the time to do that, but short of that time to be able to sign a declaration stating that they are a part of a disaster area. I urge your support. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Samuelson please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Members I'm going to give Representative Fisher an award for persistence-y on this. She brought it up in every committee and we kept trying to work on the language, and I'm going to let the other two bill sponsors address this as well, we are going to ask you to support this amendment. It has now been narrowed down to just the areas where the disaster has occurred so that if somebody comes in and wants to vote and there's been a disaster that they're not going to have to try to get back there twice when there could be road issues, flooding issues, that sort of thing. I commend the amendment sponsor for working with us on complications before and we do ask your support and if the other two sponsors would like to address that I'm welcome for them to. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Warren please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To address the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I concur with Representative Samuelson, and I commend Representative Fisher on her persistence. We actually had something similar to this in one of the original versions, I couldn't tell you how long ago or where it got lost but I commend the amendment to you and again congratulate Representative Fisher on her persistence. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Murry please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I would ask you to support this amendment and remind everyone if you just read the amendment there are only two individuals that can declare a disaster, the president and the governor. Disaster declarations are narrowly tailored to specific areas so this would be narrowly geographically defined. How we had it originally defined, is that someone would come to the election, come the polling location on election day and say they were subject to a natural disaster and then have to come back and fill a form out later. This allows them to fill the form out on election day and two individuals declare disaster and I think this is pretty narrowly defined and I would ask that you support the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further discussion, further debate on the amendment, if not the question before the house is the passage of the amendment sent forth by Representative Fisher for house committee substitute number three for house bill five eighty-nine. All in favor vote aye, all opposed vote no. The clerk will open the vote. All members wishing to record please do so at this time.
The clerk will lock the machine and record the vote. 113 have voted in the affirmative, 4 in the negative and the amendment passes. Representative Glazier, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To set forth an amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to set forth an amendment. The clerk will read. Does the general wish to say which of the amendments we should take in order? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes Mr Speaker, AST 52. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The clerk will read. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Amendment AST 52. Representative moves to amend the Bill on page 2, lines 37, 38 by inserting the following between those lines. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you very much Mr Speaker, members. This amendment is one that was run in appropriations the other day and let me state very briefly the basis for it. First, it is predicated on Alabama Law which looks to this exact kind of language but the idea behind it I think is more basic. If we believe that voter id and the photo id is really necessary to make sure that the person voting is who they say they are, as a way to protect the integrity of the voting process. And I know a number of people in here believe that and I accept that they believe that to be true. The whole goal then is to make sure that the person voting is in fact who they say they are but photo id obviously in every circumstance isn’t the only way to do that. In fact on some occasions, whether it’s someone who is elderly who has voted for fifty years at the precinct, someone who has just come back from returning overseas and but has grown up in that precinct is as Representative Jackson talked about that in his speech. There are times that people may not get their photo id in time. If the person who shows up at the poll because they’ve always voted, they’re known by the people, they’ve grown up in that neighborhood and two elected officials, two election officials, the neutral officials whoever they are, personally identify him and both, the voter and the two elections officials sign a declaration of his identity or her identity then they ought to be able to vote. It is, if we are not put form over substance, we are not put form over fundamental right. The goal here is to get it right and to allow the voter who is perfectly eligible to vote and who we all know is the voter. And so it may be that the elections officials then tell them, “look, this is your one shot, you may not be alleged to do this again but you get to do it because the law allows you here to do it under, under these kinds of circumstances but to say, “I’m so sorry Jack, we know you for fifty years, now we know you to be honorable, we know you always voted, I’m sorry you forgot your card, I know its 6’o clock in the afternoon on election day but we’re not going to let you vote” makes no sense to me at all under those circumstances. Now will they be allowed to then vote visionally and will have to come back? Well that, that may work if they are able to come back. And so the problem I think becomes, are we exhalting form over substance? And I think that that just doesn’t make any sense and neither did the state of Alabama. And so I would ask for your support. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Samuelson, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] He lady is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Couple of points here. One, remember that taking one piece from another state because I think the second amendment would do the same thing to it, is not taking it in context. Just because Alabama did it doesn’t mean that it would necessarily fit here because it’s not the full context of the Bill. Secondly from a logistical standpoint, I’ve changed precinct several times in the last ten years so we have a more mobile society. Part of the issue, in fact somebody in committee I think said, that this is part of the problem not the solution, whereas the society becomes more mobile. You do have areas where people may know you but you have other areas where they may not. And people talked about creating different classes of voters. In a way will this not in some way create a class of voters, the one who has lived there long enough to know their precinct worker and the one who moved in four months ago who doesn’t? So we think we need to keep with what we’ve got which is a voter id and we’ll do everything we can to help them and if the poll worker knows Jack, he needs to make sure Jack has during this phase-in period, the time to go and get his id and have it with him the next time he comes to vote. I ask you to vote against the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Wilkins, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Speak to the amendment, Mr Speaker. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr Speaker. I’ve vocally supported this amendment in appropriations committee yesterday. And I did so because it makes so much sense. This to me is about your friends and neighbors who work the polls. And, whether or not you.
Can believe what they see, what they know, and what they're willing to attest to. Representative Glazier painted the picture for you that could be actual. When Sally shows up to vote and she's welcomed by her long-time friends who are working as judges, Jane and John: "Hey Sally, how you doing?" "I'm doing great but I forgot my photo ID." "Well you can't vote today." And I believe Sally would be quite floored to hear that. So I ask you folks, why don't you trust your friends and neighbors who work these polling places, and work them beautifully, and support this amendment. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Warren, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Speak on the amendment. Now, this is a two-year phase-in, two years. If Joe comes in in 2014 and tells you he doesn't have a photo ID, a good friend will make sure that the county party gets his name, and the VIVA Team can get with him and get him a photo ID... [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Jackson, please that your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Speak on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just briefly, I think probably everybody in this chamber has worked a poll site, which I hope to have that pleasure not in many years. We all know what it's like on Election Day at 7 and 7:15. People will come in and they've just got their children from ____, they just finished dinner, they rush into the polls and they're asking, "Am I too late?" Well, under this bill, no matter if they've lived there 50 years, they will be too late if they don't have an ID. This amendment is a reasonable alternative to making sure we have the person they say they are but not making them turn around and leave and be denied the right to vote, and I ask your support. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further discussion, further debate on the amendment. If not, the question before the house is the passage of the amendment set forth by Representative Glazier for house may substitute No. 3 of house bill 589. All in favor vote aye. All opposed vote no. The clerk will open the vote. The clerk will let the machine record the vote. 41 having voted affirmative, 73 in the negative. The amendment fails. Representative Glazier, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To set forth the second amendment, Mr. Speaker. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized in support of his amendment. The clerk will read. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Glazier moves to amend the bill on page 2 lines 40 through 42 by rewriting those lines to read: [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Members, this amendment is based on our sister state South Carolina law and it deals with the issue of reasonable impediments to getting the ID. What it basically says is a recognition, again, in our human frailty, in our human condition, and things happen. They may be time particularly, let's say, people who have moved here, passed the 2014 election and the timeframe for the test run. We're heading into the real thing in 2016 and because of four specific things that South Carolina suggests but other states do others, that there may be time that there's a reasonable impediment to getting the ID and those deal with prolonged disability or illness, where they've had no transportation to obtain photo ID and here I want to take a point, a privilege to talk about this. I didn't think in my district, for example, or my old district...Representative Szoka now has part of this district...that that much exists, that I really didn't think I understood that. A few years ago, I went to an outlying part in the rural part of the district for a totally different reason and knocked on a series of homes in a very rural area and most of them were very elderly people. It was more a discussion of healthcare but I found out that a vast majority of people in this couple mile area hadn't gotten out of their homes, didn't have a car or transportation, hadn't seen a doctor in 20 or 30 years, had never been to the library, had never done anything except when the church van picked them up to go to church, and relatives would bring them groceries. So the lack of transportation really is a problem in some places. The lack of a birth certificate is third. For those, particularly in eastern North Carolina, who know, there are a number of families and people over the years and generations who lack those certificates. Finally family responsibilities...
for a sick or infirmed spouse or dependent. For those of us who have been in that position, or are currently in that position, we understand that that is an overriding obligation, and sometimes it's just going to take the priorities, so you just don't get out to do what you set out to do. And what the statute simply allows is some discretion to the local board of elections to allow these people to vote when they believe there is a credible, reasonable impediment to the person not getting the photo ID, and at the same time, totally able to challenge it, if the voter says that, puts it in an affidavit, that the board says, No, we really don't think that's credible, then the board can say that and don't allow them to vote. But if they do believe it to be credible, if the person signs an affidavit to that effect, then it's one of these things, i think that as human beings to human beings, we ought to allow that person the opportunity to vote. South Carolina did, so should North Carolina. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Ladies and gentlemen of the House, the Chair is happy to extend the courtesies of the gallery to a group of elementary students. The students are from Miller Elementary, in Avery county. Please stand and let us welcome you. Representative Stam, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES]To request that I be recorded as voting no on the last Glazier amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES]The gentleman will be recorded as voting no on the 1st amendment sent forth by Representative Glazier. Representative Samuelson, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES]To debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES]The lady is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES]I wanted to point out that once again, the comparison to another state. South Carolina did not have a phase in period, and did not have Viva. It also didn't have as comprehensive a free ID as we have. But, I want to go back to the Viva thing in particular on this amendment. The Viva is going to be an outreach, it's going to be an outreach to churches, it will be an outreach to community board of elections, it will be an outreach to schools and other groups, and the kinds of people that are shut in as mentioned by Representative Glazier, it is unfortunate that we have people in our community that have these kinds of extra challenges in their life that can make getting an ID a little more complicated. However, with the phase-in period, and with the viva period, we will be providing as much opportunity as possible to reach out to those people and make sure they have an ID, or that they know how to do an absentee ballot. So, I ask that you not support the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Representative Baskerville, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES]To debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES]The gentleman is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Thank you Mr. Speaker. Just to follow up with what Representative Samuelson said, in fact South Carolina did make an effort to enact a similar voter ID bill, as to ours. This particular provision is lifted directly from South Carolina's voter ID bill. The bill that did not pass federal scrutiny without this provision in there. The bill that did pass federal scrutiny after they included this provision in their bill. The amendment, it requires folks to show photo ID cards, unless they can show a reasonable impediment in obtaining one. My colleague, Representative Glazier just talked about what a reasonable impediment is. If they have a reasonable impediment to obtaining an ID, they can sign an affidavit to that effect, and then the local officials are to count that ballot, if they find that it is credible, if they find the affidavit credible, and that they find that the person is who they are saying they are. This amendment gives local officials the ability to say, Alright, this affidavit is not credible, I don't think there's a reasonable impediment to you obtaining an ID, caught and requiring that person to get a card. This gives more authority and discretion to our local officials, who I have complete confidence in, regarding their ability to administer our election laws, and our elections efficiently and properly. I have total confidence in them for that. Why is this particular amendment important? Number 1, it's important because it allows folks the right to vote, it allows them to vote on the spot, also it's important if this body wants this law to pass federal scrutiny. It's important for it to be included. If you want to spend millions of dollars defending this in federal court, for the court to just come back and say.
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Our political signed ordinance authority. Senator Tillman is recognized to explain the bill. [Speaker Changes] Thank you, Mr. President. Members, this bill simply clarifies that the municipalities may enforce the ordinance that pertains to political signs that deal with the state roads and highways. As you know, all municipalities have a state road or highway. All that I know of anyway, goes through their municipality. This simply clears it up that they may enforce that legislation, as they would any other legislation. Even though they are within the municipality. And I think this’ll make it uniform as people that are running in multi–districts or statewide , it’ll be a little more clear to them about the ordinance pertaining to the signs. Appreciate your vote. Is there any further discussion or debate? Hearing none, the question before the senate is the passage of the committee substitute to Senate Bill 105 on its second reading. All in favor will vote aye. Opposed will vote no. 5 seconds will be allowed for the voting. The clerk will record the vote. 48 having voted in the affirmative and 2 in the negative, committee substitutes the Senate Bill 105 passes its second reading. That objection be read a 3rd time. North Carolina General Assembly enacts. Is there any further discussion or debate? Hearing none the question before the senate is the passage of the committee substitute to Senate Bill 105 on its 3rd reading. All in favor will say aye. Opposed no. The ayes have it. The committee substitute to Senate Bill 105 passes its 3rd reading and will be sent to the House. Senate Bill 201, the clerk will read. Senate Bill 201. Allow hunting with suppressors. [Speaker Changes] Senator Randleman is recognized to explain the bill. Thank you Mr. President, ladies and gentlemen. Senate Bill 201 will allow anyone who has obtained a federal permit to purchase and possess a suppressor to use it when hunting. This legislation is supported by the Wildlife Resource Commission, and I appreciate your support. Is there any further discussion or debate? [Speaker Changes] Mr. President. Senator Walters for what purpose do you rise? [Speaker Changes] To speak on the bill. Senator Walters has the floor to speak on the bill. [Speaker Changes] As most folks know in this chamber, I’m from rural North Carolina and have a great respect for hunting and been a part of hunting all my life. But, being a member of the Forest Products community, and having to go into the forest every day, in a working environment, I have concerns about folks hunting with silencers. It’s dangerous. Also, being a land owner in eastern North Carolina, and living on a farm, we always step outside the office, or outside the house. If you hear a gunshot go off, you know someone is trespassing on your land. I’m all for hunting, all for the second amendment for bearing arms. I just have huge concerns about using silencers, while you ‘re hunting. So, I’d ask for you to not support the bill. Is there any further discussion or debate? Senator Tillman, for what purpose do you rise? [Speaker Changes] Mr. President. Thank you Mr. President to ask the bill sponsor a question. Senator Randleman ,do you yield for questions? [Speaker Changes] Yes sir. [Speaker Changes] I heard this discussed in judiciary, but I didn't pay as much attention to it as I should have. Would you tell me , Senator, why we need this bill? [Speaker Changes] Well, for a lot of hunters , they have experienced hearing loss. And I have a letter from one of my audiologists who says that he has performed hundreds of hearing examinations on people and that this bill tends to and leans towards helping those people that have experienced hearing loss from use of firearms over the years. Typically, hunting rifles, generally fired a round of 160 decibels. A suppressed rifle varies based on the specific suppressor and the type of ammunition. But they typically lower the decibels to between 120 to 140 range. Anything above 140 range is when the damage which is caused by the rifles can be permanent damage, and it is irreversible. [Speaker Changes] Mr. President Senator Tillman [Speaker Changes] Just a comment. Senator Waters, I've got a farm over in Alamance County and know the timber’s all been sold. But, I tend to agree with you. I've had, I've had hunters down there, when we did have a lot of timber that were hunting and if they had suppressors I probably wouldn't know they were there. And that concerns me. And one other thing that concerns me about this bill it is certainly well intended bill, Senator Randleman, and I.
Thank you very much mister speaker and while there are many things we may disagree on today the one thing I think we all agree that this bill will do is make it harder for people to vote. Now how much harder and why that should be there is much disagreement in the room about. For me the problem with the bill starts with its premise, in voter fraud. And the bill resolves an imaginary question. And since it resolves in sense an imaginary question most of its answers should never really come to pass and its analysis in my opinion very rarely apply. But to the extent that the bill really is addressing, what is for some in our society a real fear, about voter fraud, my suggestions are these. Fear in the photo id context is particularly problematic since these laws completely deny the right to vote to one group of legitimate voters, individuals without a photo id, or typically indigent, and elderly, and often members of minority populations in order to calm the fears of another group of voters. Measures that ensure confidence in the electoral system are important, but their salutary effect has to be balanced against the burdens they create. Freedom from fear is not a fundamental right but the right to vote is. Voting is one of the most fundamental rights under our constitution and once the state has granted a right to vote it cannot under the federal constitution, and as representative Michelle I know will talk about later, it cannot under the state constitution abridge or deny that right to any groups. And any law restricting fundamental rights is subject not to rational relationship tests, but to strict scrutiny. So even if it is reasonable at some point in time fear like other forms of public opinion it is fickle, and it is malleable, and it is manipulable. And it is vague and it is an undefined harm and in the photo id context the actual rights of actual voters and eligible voters who lack an id are sacrificed to address the fears of other voters. Those individuals who are harmed by the photo id laws are robbed of the very means by which they can fight back, participation in the political process. And unlike fearful voters who wish to express their discontent with the state of the electoral system, voters without ids can no longer effectively contribute in the debate over valid access versus valid security. People may fear something that does not exist or they may fear something that does exist disproportionate to the harm it poses. Evidence of widespread voter fraud was argued in Indiana, and in Georgia, and in Missouri, and yet the records in all those states that set up their laws failed to produce any serious evidence in fraud in the proportion to which it was argued. And if we look at the record of public hearings, and I really have to say that I thought that representative chair Lewis did a magnificent job in directing those two public hearings, but if you look at those two public hearings anecdotal tales abounded, the facts were almost never seen. And so in a sense this bill is using a sledge hammer to hit either a real or imaginary fly on a coffee glass table. If the harm is present, the solution is at a minimum, fully disproportionate to the problem. The cost in the photo id is the abridgment of the fundamental right, since laws that address one group of voters fears of fraud that may or may not exist do so at the expense of another group of would be voters, who's actual right to vote does exist. Law making that places a higher priority on preventing hypothetical harm rather than protecting actual rights seemingly adopts William Faulkner's rumination that there is a might have been which is more true than the truth. And further if the majority, whether it was the democrats when we were in control or the republicans now can strip the minority of rights simply by reference to fear then the foundations of democracy are undermined. Such reasoning lacks a logical stopping place. The promise of democracy carries with it the risk of uncertain
Voter turn out. What is 65% of registered voters cast a ballot. Well above the national average. This bill this afternoon will attempt to roll back some of the strong voting that we’ve had in North Carolina. This bill will block thousands of voters from voting. The General Assembly really has no legitimate argument for attacking voting rights. This bill would make it harder for thousands of North Carolinians to vote, especially our seniors, young people, voters of color, people with disabilities and the working poor. They should have their voice also heard at the ballot box. This measure is sometimes we look at it for a purpose of partisan politics and that’s wrong. Decades ago, courageous Americans spent their lives fighting for the right to vote. So that their voice could be heard. We must keep this fight going and stand up to those who would fight against it. We have a great opportunity today and I’m quite sure that some on the other side probably feel the same way but for certain pressures you’re afraid to vote along with what you know is right. But I call upon you as people of conscience. It’s time that we do the right thing. I think the thing Ken Goodman said is, to show good partisan politics. To show that we can work together on issues that sometimes we can’t seem to get our hands wrapped around. But I’d encourage all of us this afternoon to do the right thing and I would ask that you would join with many of us who will vote no to this legislation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Deborah Ross, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To speak on the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady is recognized to debate the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker and ladies and gentlemen. I think we’ve talked about this bill it seems like for two weeks now and for some of us, two years. But I want to just emphasize two practical effects that this bill is going to have and who will probably be affected the most. We’ve talked a lot about who might not have IDs and who’s going to have to be the target of this VIVA program. But when we’ve looked at the people in North Carolina who don’t have IDs and then we think about who they are and whether or not they’re trustworthy. Every bit of data we’ve gotten about who the greatest population is of people who don’t have ID’s comes up with the same result. It’s older women. It’s basically, well for me, my grandmother. But for some people it might be an aunt or your mother. These are people who are the least likely to have an ID that matches, either to have one or one that matches up to the poll book. They’re also frequently if they were born in North Carolina, the least likely to have a birth certificate. Because it used to be in North Carolina that a lot of people were born at home. We’re trying to bring that back a little back this session with the midwives. But they are not basically your profile for people that are fraudulent voters. They’re people that have contributed to their families and contributed to their communities. And I think when we talk about this we forget a lot about it. That we’re hearing all about, let’s do this digital imaging and there might be illegal immigrants and we don’t like the college students. Let’s be honest. Every bit of data says this bill will make it more difficult for grandma to vote. Now let’s talk about who the bill is going to effect in the mean. It’s going to affect every single solitary voter in North Carolina. And in particular it’s going to affect every single solitary voter if some of the other bills that we see coming down the pipe get passed. Like the ones who talk about having fewer voting sites open, the ones that cut down on early voting, the ones that cut down on Sunday voting. Because guess what? It’s going to take longer to vote. It’s just, there gonna be longer lines. In this building there’s this whole complicated challenge if you don’t look like who you say you look like. Might be the first time in North Carolina that some people who have thought that a lot of black people look alike, don’t start looking alike. Its gonna take longer, it’s going to be more contentious at the polls. And that’s it going to make it harder for everyone to vote. So think about that if this bill goes into effect and you start to hear from your constituents.
That you have just made it more inconvenient for them to vote. Please vote no. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Alexander, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To ask a question of the bill’s sponsors and to make a statement. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To which sponsor does the gentleman wish to direct his question. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Well, I’ll start with my good friend, Representative Samuelson and. [SPEAKER CHANGES] We’ll begin there. Does the lady yield? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I yield. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady yields. [SPEAKER CHANGES] My question is simple. I was perusing through my nightstand copy of the State Constitution and I came across this language in Article VI, Section 4, which says that every person presenting himself for registration shall be able to read and write any section of the Constitution in the English language, and I was wondering how that squared up with the bill before us. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Well, I’m going to defer that to Representative Murray because he has volunteered to handle all of the constitutional questions. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Murray, does the gentleman yield? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I yield. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Gentleman may state his response. [SPEAKER CHANGES] That provision of the Constitution of North Carolina has been ruled unconstitutional by the U.S. Constitution, so it does not apply. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Does the gentleman wish to direct another question to another member? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Well, I’d like to ask our learned sponsor a question. He just said that section has been ruled unconstitutional. I was under the impression that it was affirmed in the 1950’s case in that it’s ?? because of the Federal Voting Rights Act which is in itself being challenged. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Does the gentleman yield? The gentleman yields. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I yield. Mr. Speaker, it’s my understanding that the Supreme, the United States Supreme Court has invalidated this notwithstanding any provision of the, what you’re talking about the Federal Voting Rights Act which is before the Supreme Court right now. And I believe a decision might be this fall. But at the end of the day, there’s no way that we could enforce this provision as well. As far as application of the Voter ID Law that we have before us that we’re debating, and this provision of the constitution, I do not see any nexus between those two provisions. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Speaker, I would now like to just make my statement. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Gentleman is recognized to debate the bill as amended. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I’m going to quote from a letter to Mr. Henry Ashbury penned on November 19, 1858, by a young Abraham Lincoln, he said and I quote, “The fight must go on. The cause of civil liberty must not be surrendered. At the end of one or even one hundred defeats.” I think that quote is appro-po because at the end of the day all of our discussion is about whether or not this bill advances the cause of access to the machinery of government by our citizens or whether it retards that process. And on the side of the rubicon where I’m standing, it seems to be a measure though much better than the measure first advanced during last session, it is a measure that still makes it more difficult for the exercise of a fundamental constitutional right, which is the right to vote, the access to register. And for that reason though this bill is better than it was, I still believe it to be unnecessary and I still cannot find a reason why we need it or why I should vote for it. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Glazier please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To debate the bill, Mr. Speaker [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the bill as amended.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, and while there are many things we may disagree on today, the one thing I think we all agree that this bill will do is make it harder for people to vote. Now how much harder and why that should be, there’s much disagreement in the room about. For me, the problem with the bill starts with its premise in voter fraud, and the bill resolves an imaginary question, and since it resolves in a sense an imaginary question, most of its answers should never really come to pass, and its analysis in my opinion very rarely apply, but to the extent that the bill really is addressing what is for some in our society a real fear about voter fraud, my suggestions are these. Fear in the photo ID context is particularly problematic, since these laws completely deny the right to vote to one group of legitimate voters, individuals without a photo ID who are typically indigent and elderly and often members of minority populations, in order to calm the fears of another group of voters. Measures that ensure confidence in the electoral system are important, but their salutary effect has to be balanced against the burdens they create. Freedom from fear is not a fundamental right, but the right to vote is. Voting is one of the most fundamental right under our Constitution, and once the state has granted a right to vote, it cannot under the Federal Constitution, as Representative Michaux I know will talk about later, it cannot under the State Constitution abridge or deny that right to any groups, and any law restricting fundamental rights is subject not to rational relationship tests but to strict scrutiny, and so even if it is reasonable at some point in time, fear, like other forms of public opinion, is fickle and it is malleable and it is manipulable, and it is vague and it is an undefined harm, and in the photo ID context, the actual rights of actual voters and eligible voters who lack an ID are sacrificed to address the fears of the voters. Those individuals who are harmed by the photo ID laws are robbed of the very means by which they can fight back: participation in the political process. And unlike fearful voters who wish to express their discontent with the state of the electoral system, voters without IDs can no longer effectively contribute in the debate over ballot access versus ballot security. People may fear something that does not exist, or they may fear something that does exist disproportionate to the harm it poses. Evidence of widespread voter fraud was argued in Indiana and in Georgia and in Missouri, and yet the records in all those states that set up their laws failed to produce any serious evidence in fraud in the proportion to which it was argued, and if we look at the record in the public hearings, and I really have to say that I thought Representative Chair Lewis did a tremendous job in directing those two public hearings, but if you look at those two public hearings, anecdotal tales abounded, but facts were almost never seen, and so in a sense, this bill is using a sledgehammer to hit either a real or imaginary fly on a coffee glass table. If the harm is present, the solution is at a minimum fully disproportionate to the problem. The cost in the photo ID is the abridgement of a fundamental right, since laws that address one group of voters’ fears of fraud that may or may not exist do so at the expense of another group of would be voters whose actual right to vote does exist. Lawmaking that places a higher priority on preventing hypothetical harm rather than protecting actual rights seemingly adopts William Falkner’s rumination that there is a “might have been” that is more true than the truth, and further, if the majority, whether it was the Democrats when we were in control or the Republicans now, can strip the minority of rights simply by reference to fear, then the foundations of democracy are undermined. Such reasoning lacks a logical stopping place. The promise of democracy carries with it the risk of uncertain
"Messiness everywhere, but wide spread participation furthers democratic legitimacy by producing a government that reflects the will of all people and allows diverse groups of citizens to hold government officials accountable to their decisions. Representative Samuelson talked earlier I believe about the Carter-Baker commission the Carter-Baker commissions report that led to the idea of voter id. It's interesting to note that on the basis upon which the Carter-Baker commission issued it's report was invoking the results of the 2004 Wisconsin election, here's what they said. In Milwaukee, Wisconsin, investigators said they found more than 200 cases of felons voting illegally and more than 100 people who voted twice, using fake names or false addresses, and voting in the name of a dead person. More over there were more than 4500 voters cast than voters listed. Commission Susan Malonary a republican and former congress woman asserted that the photo id requirement was justified because the election in Wisconsin decided by illegal votes. A fact established in a joint report she said by the US attorneys office, the FBI, and the chief of police both republicans and democrats. Unfortunately those Wisconsin numbers ended up being not true and misleading. In fact of the nine double voting individuals named by the republican party at the time of their press conference in Wisconsin, none were ever indited by the republican appointed us attorney, six of the cases involved clerical errors. and in three cases the individual who voted had a similar name but with a different birth dates, in Chicago, Madison, and Minneapolis. So we know that there's a real need at this arena, to get past our fear and our anecdotes and our emotions into the facts and yet that record in this case, is almost short of any evidence or facts. You know, we have too major problems in the end with this bill. The first is in what kinds of voter id were going to use if we are going to do this. The rationale was that we would accept any public identification except of course the two votes in committee we would except public high school identification. Then the rationale continued but we will have public id's but we won't except any private ids. With no evidence at all to support why the ids at Wake Forest or Duke or Elan are any less secure or valid that the ids at Fayable State, or North Carolina NT, or ECU, or Western Carolina. Then we have the issue of what can substitute for the photo id. What we know is that there doesn't need to be a photo id for absentee balloting where all the reports say that if you got any fraud that's really there, but where the reports say that there's less fraud in person, in where you have the ability to see and you have other options and alternatives that most states apply there we are going to apply the strictest standard and require the id. Completely different than how we are treating the classic people who are voting absentee. Leading to the conclusion as Representative Jackson said is truly the idea of, no id vote absentee. Hardly one that would instill confidence in the justice system, or the electoral system, or what we want to encourage. In the end what have we done is two things. We have as I said earlier made it hard for every North Carolinean to vote. Secondly we have created tears in tears in classifications in voters. Some need id, some don't, some can use the identification they have, others can't. It seems to me we have made the wrong call under the constitution of the state of North Carolina, and under the federal constitution, and there is no guard for this decision so benign, as to obscure the import of what this bill does, in doing what we have done we make the system less free and less fair and less accessible, and this bill instead creates a cost unnecessarily, creates obstacles and inequality, limits accessibility, we tread on this territory at our peril, and I am thatically decent from this bill and on the path that majority taken and will be voting no for these reasons, thank you."
Pages it is arriving just before 5 PM its quitting time for you, you are hereby released.Thank you for your service today.Representative Roby more please take your purpose[SPEAKER CHANGES]Speak on a bill Mr speaker [SPEAKER CHANGES] ? recognized the bill is amended [SPEAKER CHANGES] thank you Mr speaker i have been really resent this house to speak on different ?? today i compel the talk about the house bill filing which you know i am a person who speak very bluntly some times and i feel that this bill is an attempt to suppress certain categories of orders to have to get an outcome that the majority party ruling party in this assembly wants to have with that being said i respect every one in this chamber.May this agree with you with moment and all the moments i will always try to be ?? the reason why this is such an important thing to me i grew up with grandfather who died when he was 99 years old.He was a reverend in the pintercounty, north Carolina right outside of Wilmington, the place you call ?? and he would say me that because of i am grown up in the south and segregation in ?? he cast his first ballet at the age of 62 62 and he had an older brother who was also a ?? ?? and he went to register and there was a group of young man.This is what he tells me , who look just a tear shaped lighter than me and those young man took a 62 year old man and a 67 year old man which was his brothers age and they physically beat them who was trying to exercise the right that the constitution had afforded to.We try to suppress devils, we try to physically intimidate them .This bill as representative alice anderson said it was looks drastically better in what we propose want to propose over from last year but i want you to tell what all the things my grandfather told me when i was little boy, he said son if you take a run and your are dressed up in a tuxedo and you put him in a ?? nice ?? some shop shoes ?? he might smell better he might look a little better, but he is still a rant.with the speaker i won't take too long but what i want to say is we are all we are like calmly what are we like republic and democratic in this body and will wear the power of legacy and i know that the years from now very soon some of us may have different aspirations wanna move on wanna do different things .What type of legacy are you really living ?? see those stage out there those ?? have been for the last 3 hours with sticks around in their mouth because they understand what this bill has the potential to do , which is take their voice away .Take them out of your ??system .These children are our future black white and they know future leaders they are gonna be in this house one day someone there right probably ?? in that gallery.So we have to do everything that we can in our short time here to make sure that our legacy is right just enough what is children that want to carry on and our with this
There was scripture that I was fond of when I was a little boy. It was the book of Daniel. And it is common, a common story about the handwriting on the wall. And none of the wise men of Babylon could figure out what this translation that this mysterious hand on the wall wrote. And I’ll be very brief. It said that God has numbered your kingdom. He has weighed you in the balances and have found you wanting. Mr. Speaker. Thank you for your, thank you for your indulgence and I oppose this bill and ask that you do as well. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Pittman please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To speak on the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the bill as amended. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Speaker. It deeply distresses me that some of the opponents of this bill have brought the issue of race into this discussion. As a Christian I believe as the Bible teaches that we’re all descended from the one man Adam. To me this means that there’s only race the human race. We just happen to come in a variety of colors. The color of our skin is merely genetic trait just like our eye color or our hair color or whether we tend to be tall or short or fat or slim. I tend to be on the fat side sorry to say. But skin color I say makes no difference absolutely no difference to God. And should make no difference to us. And we shouldn’t allow it to come into these kind of things. And it shouldn’t, it shouldn’t matter. So I’m offended by the suggestion that this bill is intended to suppress the vote of people who are not white because to me this bill seeks to address the issue of voter fraud. So to say that it is intended to suppress the vote of citizens who are not white is to say that only non-white people are likely to commit voter fraud. And that idea offends me on behave of my brothers and sisters who are not white. Cuz I believe that white people are just as capable of voter fraud as anyone else. So to say this bill was meant to suppress the vote of people who are not white is really I think an insult to them. And I reject that. My second point I’d like to make is to address the idea that there is little or no voter fraud in the state of North Carolina. A great deal of public comment addressed to the elections committee indicates that there is. But even if we accept the idea that there is no voter fraud in North Carolina it reminds me of the story of the fellow who was walking down the road beatin’ two sticks together. And a friend came along and said what are you doing with the sticks? He said it’s to keep the Bengal tigers away. And the guy says there aren’t any Bengal tigers around here. And he says see how well it works. So I say that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. We know that voter fraud does exist elsewhere and we should not think that we are immune. So before we simply leave our state open to voter fraud rather than allow voter fraud to take root in our state I say let’s stop insulting non-white citizens by the implication that voter fraud is a concern only among them. Let’s not insult everyone’s intelligence by saying it can’t happen here. And let’s bolster the integrity of the voting process in this state by passing this bill. Thank you sir. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Larry Hall please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Speak on the bill as amended. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the bill as amended. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Speaker. And I certainly acknowledge the efforts that were made in having public hearings on this bill. And I don’t think anybody challenges the fact that we had a lot of hearings. Now whether or not we took the information and the facts and whether or not we processed them and put them in this bill that’s another discussion. But yes we had a good show a good exhibit of openness and disclosure. And what was the objective of having those hearings? A lot of money was spent over the last two and a half years to say there was voter fraud. And I mean millions of dollars. And we know in electoral politics when you get a good issue you work it. And if it ain’t broke you don’t fix it. You keep workin’ it.
And so, we seem to be prisoners of our own creation now here in ??, we said there is a problem that didn't exist and we continued to spend millions to create that perception in the minds of our citizens and then even as representative Lewis said now we have to create a bill that addresses that perception that was created by those millions of dollars spent in those two election cycles, and so now we're trapped in a cage of our own making saying 'how do we get out of this box? How do we get out of this trap?'. We said this problem exists and now we have to say we have a fix for it so we can walk away when all the time the objective in - it is a game we all engage in - but the objective was to get political power and now that we have the power, and we have made the promise, we have to come up with something that we can pass off as a solution to the problem. And so, what does this bill do for the citizens of North Carolina? The perception that we are trying to address, that fleeting perception that we created, what does this bill do to address that perception? What did the hearings do to address that perception? We said the hearings were a fair and open process, but did they that perception? Even at the start of the hearings we finally acknowledge, there was no voter prop for all our problems in North Carolina, now the question is confidence in government. We want to restore the people's confidence in government. Now this is bearing in mind after we spent millions of dollars telling them that there was a voter fraud problem in North Carolina that doesn't exist, now they have a confidence problem with us and now we want to tell them 'Here's a solution to a problem that never existed, that we told you existed, and now you don't have confidence in us, so we're gonna pass a bill to address a problem that never existed, that we told you existed and now we have to come up with the solution.' And we can stand there and loop over and over and over again. We've created two tiers of voters here, and we tried to offer amendments that would say 'lets not just have voters who present in person be the standard, but also all the voters, lets have one standard.', and I've heard members say 'well we don't wanna have two standards, but we do have and we recognise that and it's documented in the bill.' We have the power, we're going to pass this out, I know we are, and that's the way its gonna be, I think my good friend Ed ?? said it, you gotta elect it, you gotta do what you wanna do, you don't care what the people say, and you're not gonna apologise, so we understand that. But we do understand also, that there is some issues out here that are related to voting that are going to come along as well. Now we tried to address issues of making voting more accessible to the citizens of North Carolina, more transparent, it would not delay voting in North Carolina, and so we submitted bills that would provide for online voting almost a month before this bill was submitted, and of course they end up in rules, and everybody knows what rules is. We submitted another bill approximately a week before this one to provide for early voting, and of course its been rules, no extensive hearings on it, public not invited to hear whether or not, or give their opinions as to whether or not those bills were relevant, or would provide openness and fairness, they're in rules, in a draw somewhere I would presume, or in the electronic graveyard on someones computer. And so that concern we say we have for out confidence in the government is not exhibited or the solutions we would ask to be discussed and debated in the public. This bill causes delay in voting, and unfunded mandate on our local voice of election, and so we know that's going to happen, I hear someone say 'Well, we've got two years form this bill to work.' And that's a good depiction if you wanna -
buy into it and act like you don't know that the majority of our citizens, or the great number that we deal with during elections, come out during Presidential elections. So we know that's when many of the voters that we won't see until the Presidential year, the year this bill goes into effect. They will not be engaged and involved in this supposed glide path toward voter I D. We know what the history is, the volume during Presidential elections. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Speaker. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Stevens, please state you purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] A point of order. I've been sitting patiently listening to the debate. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady may state her point. [SPEAKER CHANGES] There's been some attacks on personalities and there's been some imputing the motives of members, which are breaches of the House of [??]. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady's point is taken. The Chair will just simply direct the Member to remain focussed, primarily on the content of the bill versus the motives and intentions of other Members within the body. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Speaker and . . . As we look at the causes of this bill, what caused this bill to come into place and what are the effects gonna be. And I've heard a lot of information and a lot of comments directed at the intent, the intent, the intent as long as . . . etcetera, then we don't have to look at the outcome. But again, the outcome of this bill is to delay to make it more difficult for citizens to vote who have that right, who constitutionally have that right and should be provided that right without that delay. We say justice delayed is justice denied. Well, the franchise delayed is the franchise denied to an eighty-eight year old grandmother standing in line who has to wait even longer because of these provisions. So that's the franchise delayed and the franchise denied if she can't stand in that line longer. Now the citizens of North Carolina already said they believe in the system we have and we've had record turnout in the voting process. So for us to say now there's a demand or there's a confidence problem, there is no confidence problem in the system. The confidence problem we now perceive and see as a confidence problem in us. I hope that's not a . . . when I say 'us', I hope that no one takes that as a personal criticism. But that is one directed at us because, as I said, the system itself, if we aren't the guardians of it, and if we don't respect it, then of course, we become victims of it. It was once said by Mr. Walt Kelly, "We shall meet the enemy and not only may he be ours, he may be us". This is our system, we're the guardians of it, we have the responsibility for it and if we don't do the right thing, the effects will be visited on us in the generations of North Carolinians to come. So I hope that you will consider what you are doing today. I hope you will turn away, if not today on this voter I D bill, these other attempts to limit early voting, to cut out the number of polling places, to make it more difficult for people to vote at their universities, I hope you will turn them back in good faith. If you truly believe you're doing the right thing today in voting for this voter I D bill, then do not engage in voting for those other bills that will exacerbate the effect of this and make it more draconian in its effect on our citizens. Our citizens are from every race and walk of life. Our senior citizens are from every race and walk of life. Our students are from virtually every state in the country. So please do not vote today as if this is the only bill we're gonna do, and then bring those other measures that will make it worse, and exacerbate it and change the effects of it. I ask that you vote against this bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Michaux, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To speak on the bill, Mr. Speaker. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] First, I guess I'll make a disclaimer like Representative Murray. You want to know anything constitutional about this bill, how about seeing me. I've got forty-seven years of practice of law in all the courts of the State and the United States. I served as United States Attorney and I served as a prosecutor, so I might have a little knowledge about the Constitution and to remind you that in the law there are always two sides to a question. You'll get one side from him and you'll get the other
?? I’m going to give you the other side right now. First of all what you are about to do is pass an unconstitutional law you have sworn to uphold constitution of the state of North Carolina not in consistent with the constitution of the United States of America. Let me, let me, and I do this because I wanted to be very clear. Here’s what the constitution of North Carolina says when it comes to suffrage and eligibility to office. Article 6 Section 1 who may vote? Who may vote? Every person born in the United States and every person who has been naturalized 18 years of age and possessing the qualification, possessing the qualifications set out in this article shall be entitled to vote at any election by the people of the state except as if in provided. That’s article 6 section 1 of the constitution. Now section two sets out the qualifications of voting and that’s divided in two sections. One is the resident’s period state elections the other is the resident’s period for presidential elections and the third is the disqualification of felons. Now all of this says to you folks that the constitution that you swore to uphold is the guiding light setting qualifications for voting. It doesn’t say anything about motor id, it doesn’t say anything about showing this, that, or the other. This is talking about voting. Your constitutional right to vote. But now let’s go look a bit further in this constitution. You go to section three it talks about registration, not voting, registration. It says every person offering to vote shall be at the time legally registered as a voter as here in prescribed and in the manner provided by law. General assembly shall enact general’s laws governing registration of voters not the casting of the vote but the registration of voters. So, so I guess I am going to give you a solution to the problem let’s get registration id rather than voter id when you go to register the age we live in now you can take a picture when you go register digitize it and put it in the file and then when you go to vote you don’t have to show voter id because when you give your name they can bring up the picture and see who you are. Now to me you want a solution that’s it but to go against your own constitution stating that you don’t have the power to put qualifications on this you can only do it by a constitutional manner which sets up additional qualifications. Now just go back to the 1868 constitution where one of the qualifications prior to that constitution was that you must owe property before you could vote or hold office. That was a qualification the 1868 constitution took that out. So that even more ?? of the fact that the qualifications for vote are put in the constitution and this is the way you ought to go. Now folks, we embark on things and I agree with Representative Hall and I agree with the majority leader representative Starnes you got the power to do anything that what you want to do and you don’t have to listen to us and I am about to say some things that you ain’t going to like. But it don’t make no difference to me whether you like it or not my folks sent me here to do what I’m supposed to do. But im going to give you a little history because voting is important to a certain group of people in this state and in this Nation. And it is important because that group of people
Had to fight, had to fight you to get that right the right that you already had. You had no idea, that anybody had to fight for the same rights that you had. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Mister speaker point of order [SPEAKER CHANGES]. representative Stevens pleas state your point of order [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Are we gonna history lesson or are we gonna stay relevant to the bill. I think we have gone a little far a way from that in therms of imputing motives again. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. The lady point is taken. The chair would just ask representative Michaux to just stay focused and specific. References to you, if you is directed to members of the caucuses, is clearly out of order. Or members of this chamber is clearly out of order. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Well mister speaker, all I was doing is trying to give a little history of why this bill is unnecessary, and that's where I'm going. and I told you I was gonna say some things some body ain't going to like, and that is the way is turning out to be. Here again we had to fight for the same rights that you have. What you are doing is you putting and impediment another impediment. That you don't have the right under the constitution to do. Is just that simple if we have to go back and fight for that right, like we had to fight for it before, then its gonna have to happen that way. Because you gonna set it up for it to happen that way. This bill is not necessary, we had good fair and free election in this state. Some folks came in and talk to about some fraud, I had one lady come in form Durham, to talk abut fraud being in Durham by a person who was dead, and voting. The unfortunate ting about it she call the persons name, and I knew the person who was dead. I also know the son who had the same name, still voting the election. Director in Durham wrote and sent you all emails telling you that the lady was wrong. Yes his father had died in 2002. But his son how was name the same thing, live with him and living in the same place, that he live then, was voting and he living and he is living. They told you about 69 fraudulent votes in Nashville. I look back and say 'well they may have a point there. But they never told you that those 69 votes, they say were fraudulent, weren't counted. They never told you that. We got a good system. Why do you want to feather it up with more bee stings. That are gonna cause more people not to vote, there gonna cause people not to exercise that constitutional right. You talk bout having to show ID to board a plane, to cash a check. You ain't got no right to to board a plane or cash a check. That's a private situation that's not a constitutionally guaranteed right. So that's not bad. The only thing that you got here, is that you are trying to do something that your constitution wont let you do, and I would suggest that you think long and had about it. Because since you won't let me history, to try to keep you from making the same mistake. That a lot of other people make, particularly republicans made. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Speaker again point of order . [SPEAKER CHANGES]. I'm trying to ended mister chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. ?? well the gentleman my proceed. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Well I was trying to fish it cos I didn't want to embarrass you any more, so there it is mister speaker we. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. The chair will not provide the gentleman any further latitude. With his closing comments. The chair hopes that he respects. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Yes sir, I will end. I have to end. Now so I will end. What you are bout to do is gonna cause problems and you gonna be faced with a myriad of law suits. That you not going to be able to defend. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Representative Blust please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. To speak on the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. The gentleman is recognize to speak on the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Thank you mister chairman. Members of the house Winston Churchill once said the truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may de-right it, but in the end there it is. With this issue I think we have seen nume
untrue assertions made repeatedly with the idea that the constant repetition of something untrue can render it true. There's several examples of this, the first is that some voters might be denied the right to vote by this bill. Students, I, I can't see them from where I am, mouths taped, someone point out in this bill how those students are gonna be kept from voting. We've gotten sidetracked on the issue of student IDs. Well, there's several different forms of IDs that can be used under this bill to vote and I hope that our educational system, particularly our colleges and universities are doing a good enough job that 18 to 20 or 24 year old students can figure out how to get some of these photo IDs. It just, it baffles me to keep hearing that. Next there's the assertion that there is no voter fraud. This is a bill in search of a solution, a solution in search of a problem. And that assertion just isn't true from the evidence. I understand some dismiss those who came to the committee and told stories, some of what they had personally witnessed. And there is a lot of frustration particularly among some of the core activists who go out and volunteer and stay at the polls all day and see some of the things that are going on. Dr. Larry Sabateau, hardly a conservative, he's a professor at the University of Virginia of political science, Director of the University of Virginia Center for Politics and author of the book Dirty Little Secrets: The Persistence of Corruption in American Politics. In testimony before congress I think put this issue in pretty good perspective. He said when we look at the registration system and voting process we have to balance two conflicting values. One the goal of full, informed participation in, of the electorate, and two the integrity of the system. To the extent that we keep expanding the participation rate and make it easier and easier for people to register and vote, we almost certainly increase the chances for voter fraud. So in a sense it's a trade off. To move completely in the direction of one value as opposed to the other is foolhardy. My strong suspicion based upon scores of investigated and unexplored tips from political observers and interviewees over the years is that some degree of voter fraud can be found almost everywhere. And serious outbreaks can and do occur in every region of the country. In the book Dirty Little Secrets it noted that some of the liberal activists that had been interviewed for that book took part justification in fraudulent elect-, electoral behavior on the grounds that because the poor and dispossessed have so little political clout, quote, extraordinary measures are required to compensate, unquote. In Crawford vs. Marion County Election Board, The United States Supreme Court Decision that upheld Indiana's Voter ID bill, the majority opinion which was written by Justice John Paul Stevens, one of the court's most liberal members, said, it remains true that flagrant examples of such fraud and other parts of the country have been documented throughout this nation's history by respected historians and journalists that occasional examples have surfaced in recent years that demonstrate that not only is the risk of voter fraud real, but that it could affect the outcome of a close election. In an earlier level of the same case, in the seventh circuit, the seventh circuit pointed out that the relative rarity of prosecutions for voter impersonation can be explained by the endemic under-enforcement of voter fraud cases and the extreme difficulty in apprehending the voter impersonator. Don't keep, don't take my word for that fact that voter fraud occurs. We have witnesses, we have experts, we have Supreme Court appointee-, justices and we have Chris Matthews of Hardball who said that impersonation voter fraud has gone on since the fifties. He s-, said that this is how it happened, someone calls voters to ask them whether they intend to vote, then all the sudden somebody goes and votes for them. Said Matthews, I-, quote, I know all about it in North Philly.
It's what went on and I believe it still goes on. John Fund and Hans Von Spakovsky in their book on voter fraud Who's Counting said, investigations of voter fraud are inherently political because they often involve race, they often are not zealously pursued or prosecuted. Many federal and state prosecutors remain leery of tackling fraud or intimidation and sentences imposed for conviction are often far too light. While voting irregularities are common, the number of people who have served hard time in jail in the last few years as a result of a conviction for voter fraud can be counted on your fingers, several prosecutors told the authors they feared charges of racism or a return to Jim Crow vote suppression ?? if they pursue fraud cases. Another mistruth is the argument that voter ID laws will suppress voting by minorities, the poor, and the elderly. This assertion, too, has been disproved by the observable reality in states which already have such a law, and it does... I find it a little bit amusing that some of the same people who believed we should make laws that would cost billions of dollars based upon a projection of questionable validity that the sea would rise 39 inches in a hundred years are complaining about addressing [CROSSTALK] [SPEAKER CHANGES] Please state your purpose [SPEAKER CHANGES] Are we not going a little bit astray here at this point, sir? [SPEAKER CHANGES] The chair takes the gentleman's point well. The member will focus his comments. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I think the comments are focused, Mr. Speaker. But the voter suppression charges... the same type charges, the same predictions, the same type rhetoric was used in Georgia. And in Georgia, the actual participation, and this is the problem opponents of this law have, you have an observable situation in Georgia and Indiana where the voting participation rate went up. I don't see how you can maintain still the same arguments you've been maintaining when you've seen it in the reality on the ground. And I won't go back over those statistics and it's in all elections, even off-years. The voter participation and population groups were vigorous opponents of the ID law and said there would be suppression and disenfranchisement of voters. Far fewer voters did not have photo IDs than opponents of the law had falsely claimed, numerous states have voter ID and numerous studies have proven that voter ID laws do not negatively affect turnout, the voter ID laws do not suppress voters and that voters are not disenfranchised by such law. There is no evidence to the contrary, none. In court cases during discovery, particularly in Georgia, those challenging voter ID laws have been unable to produce a single person in response to discovery that can say their vote was or will be suppressed. Not one. In Georgia, the liberal groups that were challenging the law put out urgent appeals to hey, give us some names, give us some people, and not one person was found, not one. If you won't take my word for it, take the word of Arthur Davis, former congressman from Alabama and active member of the congressional black caucus, the first representative outside of Illinois who endorsed in 2007 Barack Obama for president, who seconded the nomination of Barack Obama at the 2008 Democratic National Convention in Denver, who has come strongly to support voter ID. Quote, the idea that people in low income African-American communities are bothered or intimidated or burdened by attaching just a few responsibilities to their all-important core right of voting, it's a condescending idea. It's a patronizing idea. If the law works the same with respect to everybody, it's free and clear of whatever history or bigotry or racial animus exists. I've changed my mind on voter ID laws. I think Alabama did the right thing in passing one and I wish I had gotten it right when I was in Congress and political office. When I was a congressman, I took the path of least resistance on this subject for an African-American politician. Without any evidence to back it up, I lapsed into the rhetoric of various partisans and activists who contend that [INCOMPLETE WORD]
requiring photo identification to vote is a suppression tactic, aimed at thwarting black voter participation. He goes on, he says he's seen wholesale manufacture of balance of the polls, and absentee voting in the name of the dead, in the nonexistent, and the too mentally impaired to function, and this cancels out the rights of citizens who are exercising their rights. That's suppression, by any light, he says. If you doubt it exists, I don't. I've heard the peddlers of these ballots brag about it. And I've been asked to provide the funds for it, and I'm confident that it has changed at least a few close local elections as a result. It is chilling to see the intimidation tactics brought to bear on African American [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Michaux, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Speaker, I still raise the same question. If I wasn't allowed to complete my historical remarks, then I think he's getting off base too, sir. I really do. If I can finish mine, then I don't have any problem with him finishing his. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Speaker, I would just say I am quoting someone who is talking about the very law with which we are debating. If that's off subject, then I don't understand the subject of subjects. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Michaux, in this particular case, I do believe the gentleman is using references to make a point about the voter fraud, and for that reason your point is not well taken. The gentleman may precede for a period not to ??. [SPEAKER CHANGES] He's talking about [SPEAKER CHANGES] 3 minutes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Going back to quoting. Democratic legislators in Rhode Island passed a law,who had the nerve to support a voter ID law in that very liberal state. Voter ID is unlikely to impede a single good faith voter, and then only gives voting the same elements of security as writing a check at the store, or maintaining a library card. The case for voter ID is a good one, and it ought to make politics a little cleaner, and the process of conducting elections much fairer. We've reached the sad point where so many on the left are now happy to exaggerate fears about the bad old days coming back, that they no longer represent a meaningful moral tenure in our national conversation. The fact is that reasonable precautions against voter fraud are nothing like the billy club, the cattle prod and the charging state trooper of the past. We need to recognize that, and confront the critics who go over the top on this issue. And I close, with Rhode Island, which also has recently passed a photo ID to vote bill. Governor Lincoln Chafee, an independent, ignored the overheated rhetoric, and signed the bill, noting that "requiring identification at the polling place is a reasonable request to ensure the accuracy and the integrity of our elections". The democratic cosponsor of the bill said it was wrong for party leaders to make this a republican vs. democrat issue. It's not. It simply good government. It's simply a good government issue. We as representatives have a duty to the citizenry to ensure the integrity of our elections, and a requirement to show an ID will ensure that integrity, and I believe that the government of Rhode Island, the sponsor were correct, and I urge you to vote for the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further discussion, further debate? If not, the question before the house is the passage of house committee substitute number three to house bill 589 as amended on its second reading. All in favor, vote aye. All opposed, vote no. The clerk will open the vote. All members wishing to record, please do so at this time. The clerk will lock the machine, record the vote. 80 having voting in the affirmative, and 36 in the negative, the house committee substitute number three for house bill 589 as amended has passed in second reading, and without objection, will be read a third time. [SPEAKER CHANGES] General assembly of North Carolina enacts. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further discussion, further debate? If not, the question for the house is the passage of House Committee substitute number three to house bill 589, as amended on its third reading. All those in favor, vote aye. All those opposed, vote no. The clerk will open the vote.
The clerk ?? machine will record the vote. 81 having voted in the affirmative and 36 in the negative. The house committee substitute number 3, to house bill 589 as amended, has passed it's 3rd reading. The bill will be engrossed and sent to the senate. Ladies and gentleman of the house, the chair is happy to extend it's courtesies of the gallery to a group of friends from my neck of the woods: Patt Murray, Linda Angel, Heathe Greg, Randy Long, and Lois McDowell. Please stand and let us welcome. Representative Richardson, please state your purpose. The house will come to order. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Personal privilege, please. [SPEAKER CHANGE] The lady is recognized for a point of personal privilege. The house will come to order. [SPEAKER CHANGE] I would just like to announce that my LA was taken out today on a emergency. She's at, well she was - I don't know what the status is now, but she was taken to Wakemed North, so we ask your prayers for her. Hopefully she'll be better and hopefully she can go home tonight. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Ladies and gentlemen of the house, we will adjourn the subject to re-refer all bills, and receiving special messages from the senate, and receipt of committee reports and conference reports. The chair understands we have two conference committees, actually we'll go ahead and do that, so the members will know what conference committees they're on. Special message from the senate, the clerk will read. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Special message from the senate, ?? on March 21st 2013, house representatives fail to incur ?? senate bill 36. Bill ?? changes and administrative procedurs ?? all bonded with information ?? the differences may be resolved respectively. ?? Principle Clark. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Noted the chair appoints Representative Blust as chair, Representative Murray, and Representative Carney to the conference committee. [SPEAKER CHANGE] The speaker ?? measures on April 17, 2013 ?? of house of representatives. The senate fails to incur the house committed a substitute to senate bill 91, to build and ?? entitled that ?? a law pertaining to administrative action that may be taken by an occupated flying board as a result the spun charges of convictions under JS15A145.4 and 15A145.5 and prohibited ?? from repressing information regarding arrest, criminal charge, and criminal conviction that'll be sent to ?? for the information senate requests ?? appoints senator Daniel ?? while they pardon senate to confer the like committee appointed by your party and that the differences arising may be resolved respectfully ?? principle Clark. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Noted the conference committee for the house will be Representative Daughtry, chair, Representative Davis, Representative Dobson, and Representative Jackson and the senate will be so notified. Notice this is an announcement. Representative Stone, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Announcement. [SPEAKER CHANGE] The gentleman is recognized for an announcement. [SPEAKER CHANGE] The committeel governor will meet tomorrow at room 643, we have a full schedule. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative McGrady, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Announcement. [SPEAKER CHANGE] The gentleman is recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGE] The county caucus will meet tomorrow morning at 7:45 in room 425, that's 7:45 at room 425. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative McNeill, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Point of personal privilege. [SPEAKER CHANGE] I'd like to congratulate my high school, Eastern Randolph High School, in Randolph North Carolina, for coming in first and second place in the high school division of the 2013 North Carolina Capital Challenge, and I'd also like to say
that they took four of the top five places. [applause] [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Brandon, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] A moment of personal privilege, please. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The House will come to order. The gentleman is recognized for a point of personal privilege. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I don't know, a lot of people might have read the papers, this is kind of important. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The House will come to order. [SPEAKER CHANGES] A lot of people may have read the papers, but us on the democratic side had suffered a tremendous loss of one of our colleagues and one of our advisers and one of our consultants. A young 27-year-old woman lost her life yesterday, and it has been really painful for a lot of us. And could have not met a better person if we all continuously see her smile all day long today. So we offer our prayers to Nation, her husband, and ask that you join us in prayer because this is really a difficult time for us on the democratic side. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further notices and announcements. Representative Moore is recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Speaker, subject to receipt of messages from the Senate, committee reports, conference reports, re-referral of bills and resolutions, move that the House do now adjourn to reconvene on Thursday, April the 25th, 2013, at 12 noon. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Moore moves, seconded by Representative Brody. Subject to receipt of messages from the Senate, receipt of committee reports, receipt of conference reports and re-referral of bills and resolutions that the House do now adjourn to reconvene on Thursday, April 25th at 12 pm. All in favor say aye. All opposed say no. The ayes have it. The House stands adjourned.